Evidence of meeting #27 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cigarettes.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to respond.
The department is pleased to report a number of things. First, should this bill be passed, it will give the department the powers necessary to collect the type of information that the member is talking about. It will require manufacturers and importers to notify us about tobacco products, including smokeless, and in particular the ingredients in them, so we'll be able to determine how much of the smokeless product is flavoured, not flavoured, and to what extent. That will be useful information to us as we move forward.
We will also continue, given the testimony we've heard about regional differences, to further study the use of smokeless tobacco, and we'll be pleased to report back to the committee through the clerk or to appear at another point in time on the results of that data and how we think we need to respond, using the powers in this bill.
NDP
Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB
Could I just ask, Paul, how long you think it will take to get a handle on the usage and the ingredients in this product?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Madam Chair, we believe that within a year we would be able to leaf through a full-use cycle in terms of usage and have sufficient data from the importers and manufacturers with respect to ingredients to be able to report back. But certainly, if it is possible and if we have data sooner than that, we would undertake to do so. So it would be within a year, and if possible, sooner.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Thank you, Mr. Glover, and thank you, Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.
So we'll consider the two amendments withdrawn.
We'll now go to the government amendment.
Dr. Carrie.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
This one is fairly lengthy. I believe everybody has a handout.
The intent of the schedule of Bill C-32 is to ban the use of additives, including flavours that make cigarettes, little cigars, and blunts more attractive to youth. The schedule is not intended to prohibit the functional ingredients that are required for the manufacturing of the products.
After talking to industry about the technical requirements of the bill, we were told that restrictions would change the look and the feasibility of making their product. For example, the changes make it technically difficult for them to use existing cigarette papers, and filter paper would no longer be able to look like cork. This amendment will fix the technical requirements without compromising the intent of the bill.
I would move to propose that Bill C-32 in the schedule be amended as per the text provided to the clerk and circulated to the committee.
Conservative
Bloc
Nicolas Dufour Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
First of all, since this is a rather technical issue, as my colleague Mr. Carrie was saying, I would particularly like to question the officials of Health Canada.
We know that there are major differences between cigarettes made in the US and cigarettes made in Canada. They do not use the same ingredients. There are many examples, such as Camel cigarettes which are not made the same way in both countries.
This is an important issue for my colleague for Compton—Stanstead since the border between Canada and the United States crosses her riding. Could this have an impact on the boutiques hors-taxes?
Bloc
Nicolas Dufour Bloc Repentigny, QC
I was looking for the right word. It is « duty-free shops ».
I would like to know what the impact of those differences would be on duty-free shops, according to Health Canada officials.
Thank you.
Conservative
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
I will comment on the amendment generally.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
I will also answer the honorable member.
First of all, with respect to the amendment that's proposed, it is the department's view that this responds to a number of concerns the committee heard with respect to testimony from industry. For example, white is a colour, so what colour would we like the cigarettes to be? These were some of the practical issues we heard as we moved this stuff through.
It would allow for cigarettes to continue to be manufactured as they are today without radically changing their appearance. There are a number of ingredients, particularly in the paper, that help them to burn in an even manner that we feel is both aesthetic and important from a variety of points of view. So this would not compromise our ability to deal with the flavours and additives as we move forward, but it would respond to a number of the concerns put forward by industry.
There is a difference between American and Canadian cigarettes, mainly due to the type of tobacco used. In Canada, they use Virginia flue...
Denis Choinière Director, Office of Regulations and Compliance, Tobacco Control Program, Department of Health
Virginia tobacco.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
It is Virginia tobacco, which is a slightly different from American tobacco. The taste is different. Also, in the US, they add things to improve the taste. Some American manufacturers have changed their formulations in order to meet the requirements of the legislation. Generally, there is no problem.
Essentially, we're saying there is a significant difference between Canadian tobacco and American tobacco. And it has to do with the tobacco that goes into the product. Canadian tobacco is less harsh--it's a Virginia flue--whereas the American is a....
Director, Office of Regulations and Compliance, Tobacco Control Program, Department of Health
A mixture of flue-cured Burley and Oriental.
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
It's a mixture. Therefore, they add a number of sweeteners to it. And that is a concern people have been expressing.
However, it is those very sweeteners that this bill is intending to address and deal with. But we are aware of a number of American-branded cigarettes that have been reformulated, had their recipes changed, in order to respond to the demands of the Canadian marketplace, some of which are already in place in advance of this bill.
The requirement, therefore, essentially would be for those who haven't done so to look at the new Canadian requirements and adjust accordingly, and then they would still be able to market in Canada and deal with the issues that exist around the duty-free area.
Conservative
Liberal
Joyce Murray Liberal Vancouver Quadra, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I going to speak on the same issue but ask the question a little differently.
My key concern about this bill is the potential for an increase in contraband coming from the prohibition of certain products. Certainly that remains a concern. And the second concern I have is that there was a push by government to have this done so quickly that it was virtually absent of meaningful consultation, as far as we can tell. That's why we're seeing amendments put forward by industry, which never had a chance to see this until after the bill was tabled.
So is this a complete and full reflection of those industry concerns? The question I have is, have you sat down with the groups representing duty-free sales--for example, the Frontier Duty Free Association--and identified whether their concern, which is that normal American cigarettes sold in cartons in the very regulated atmosphere of a duty-free store will actually be banned by this bill, has been addressed in these amendments? Have you specifically met with the duty-free interest groups?
Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I have a number of comments. The issues around contraband obviously are separate from the particular amendment here and are dealt with separately by the federal government.
With respect to consultations with industry, we have been consulting with industry and are aware of a number of their concerns. We have been working to respond to the concerns, quite frankly, that we feel we can respond to within the spirit and intent of the bill. We would suggest to the members that it is a regular process as these things move forward in terms of the amendments introduced to this and other bills. As we've noted in response to some other questions, there were some differences. But there were consultations with industry with respect to this.
With respect to the particular organization in question, they have very recently been in contact with Cathy Sabiston, the director general. That was part of the conversations you literally saw me having before clause-by-clause started. So we attempt to reach out to all of those who are impacted by this bill, and we'll continue to do so. That is one of the benefits of the bill the way it has been structured, in that there are two schedules. Our intention is to maintain those schedules over time, as appropriate.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to talk a little bit more about the issue with the duty-free shops in particular. It's the same issue as I brought up at our last meeting, when I talked about the trade issues and the controlled environment and the fact that cigarettes are always sold in carton sizes, and not individually or even in packages.
What would it take in this bill to address their concerns? You mentioned sugar. Is that the only thing?
