Evidence of meeting #30 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pandemic.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

David Butler-Jones  Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Shelagh Jane Woods  Director General, Primary Health and Public Health Directorate, First Nations and Inuit Health Branch, Department of Health
John Maxted  Associate Executive Director, Health and Public Policy, College of Family Physicians of Canada
Jan Kasperski  Chief Executive Officer, Ontario College of Family Physicians
Berry Vrbanovic  Councillor, City of Kitchener; and Second Vice-President, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Alain Normand  Manager, Emergency Measures and Corporate Security, City of Brampton, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Perry Kendall  Provincial/Territorial Co-Chair, Special Advisory Committee on H1N1, Pan-Canadian Public Health Network

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Thank you very much for that answer.

I wonder if you could give us a little bit, too, of a global understanding. The government took a proactive approach in 2006 to put a pandemic plan in place here in Canada. How has that helped Canada as we compare to other countries that didn't have that plan in place, that weren't so proactive?

I know it's a little subjective for you to state this, but how do we rate compared to other countries in terms of how we're handling this? I'm hearing some wonderful things coming out of Canada, how, when the virus was first discovered, we were able to map it genetically. How did that $1 billion investment in 2006 allow us to be leaders in the world?

3:30 p.m.

Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. David Butler-Jones

A number of things have been in place. The lessons from SARS put Canada in a position of needing to do something, and people around this table were part of that debate and discussion that created the formation of the agency. The investments, the focus, and the planning in 2006 have really brought that focus in a way that few other countries really have, to the point where having the public health network, having the ongoing collaboration at the federal, provincial, and territorial levels, having plans in place, being the first country to actually have a pandemic plan nationally and then working on it regionally and locally, having a contract for vaccine supply, having a stockpile of antivirals, when you put that all together, has made us quite unique—if not totally unique, then very rare in the world. We're fortunate, but it's for a lot of wiser people than me, I think.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Thank you very much for your answers. I know everyone around the table appreciates your attending at such short notice, and we thank all the witnesses.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Thank you, Dr. Carrie.

We will now go to Ms. Wasylycia-Leis.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson.

I want to start where I left off in my discussion with the minister.

We're hearing a lot from the minister and from you, Dr. Butler-Jones, about plans in the works for the fall. I think it's really hard for us to accept that when, as early as last June, you knew and you talked about this possibility of a mutation and a serious outbreak in the fall. So we expected that more planning would have been done this summer and we would by now be at the point where we'd hear specific plans and more concrete proposals for dealing with such things as the higher incidence in first nations communities and dealing with the questions we're all getting about adverse reactions to vaccines.

First of all, as Gary Doer, the Premier of Manitoba, said, we have a truck coming at us. It doesn't look like we're actually ready for this, so what happens if there is a significant outbreak in the fall? We don't have vaccines, we don't have a prioritization list, we don't have a contingency plan in terms of massive numbers in first nations or remote communities, so what are we going to do? How are we going to address these serious issues?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Dr. Butler-Jones, I will give you a chance to answer this. We have another panel coming in and it has just been drawn to my attention that we've gone a little bit over time, but I know you had that one question, so go ahead.

3:35 p.m.

Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. David Butler-Jones

I don't know whether it's because it's like a duck and the legs are going a lot faster under the water than you see with it moving smoothly along the surface, but there's an incredible amount of work going on. There are plans in place. We don't need to prioritize antivirals, because we have enough antivirals to treat everybody. You don't have to line up.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Is it all going to be ready at the same time, or are there going to be some choices?

3:35 p.m.

Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. David Butler-Jones

No, the antivirals—the drug for treatment—are already in provincial warehouses and are already pre-positioned in remote communities.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

But talk about the vaccine now.

3:35 p.m.

Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. David Butler-Jones

For the vaccine, we will have the priorities in September. We will have the vaccine in November. The planning is already taking place.

There are some things that are obvious. Those in remote communities, those with underlying risk factors, health care workers, and essential workers are going to be at a higher risk level. But if you go into a community of 300 people, you're not going to do only half the community. You're going to immunize everybody in that community.

So again, the working out of logistics is going on now, the refinement of guidelines, the publication of additional guidelines, getting the surveillance in place, getting the negotiations in place. Things have been going like crazy. We are in such a different place today in terms of response. It doesn't mean that everybody is there. There are lots of people who still have their head in the sand, but that doesn't mean there isn't a phenomenal amount of work going on. In fact, as Shelagh Jane was saying, 90% of reserves have a plan and they have tested that plan, or whatever.

So it's not like there isn't a lot going on. There's a huge amount going on. Are we there yet? No. The fact that there are communities still waiting for someone to solve their problem for them, or whatever, is a different issue.

The advice is there, the guidance is there, the capacity is there; it's really about applying it and finding ways and asking the questions. If people aren't sure, ask the questions, because we have local systems to address them.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Thank you.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Could I ask a question?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

No, Ms. Wasylycia-Leis. I've had three people ask if they could ask a set of three other questions, so I'm going to stop it now.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

Could we get further information about studies around vaccines that we've heard from Arthur Schafer--

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

What we're going to do now is we're going to go to--

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North, MB

--his comments and concerns about the vaccine?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

You know what, we're simply going to have to suspend until we can get order here, because this committee is not going to go this way today. This is a very important issue.

Now, Dr. Butler-Jones, if you have a couple of closing remarks, we'll then go to the next panel.

3:35 p.m.

Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. David Butler-Jones

Only to say that, as everybody says, this is an important issue. There will always be one-offs; there will always be the one in a hundred who thinks everybody else is wrong. They may be right. Not very often, but they may be right. So in terms of the questions, it's one thing; the questions are very important. The so-called experts need to listen also to the answers.

What I understand is that we're going to be coming back to this. I'd be very pleased to come back at any time or, as we did in the spring, actually have an information meeting as opposed to a committee meeting, where MPs from the committee and others might wish to come and have discussion, talk about it as long as they want on these issues. I'd be very pleased to find a time to do that, to supplement whatever else you might do with the committee.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

I think you've heard today, Dr. Butler-Jones, the concern and the care and the involvement that all the committee members have. I want to commend you, the minister, and Shelagh Jane Woods for coming today and for being so accommodating in helping us with these questions. As the chair of this committee, I do like to be able to get all our witnesses in. Actually, these witnesses are from the opposition, so I'm trying to be very fair about making sure we have all these people come in. I thank you, and I thank you for your generous offer to be so available.

What we will now do is suspend for 30 seconds and we'll have the other panel come to the table.

Thank you.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

We will resume with our second panel.

We now have the College of Family Physicians of Canada, and Dr. John Maxted; and the Ontario College of Family Physicians, Dr. Jan Kasperski. They are going to share their time. Each group has a 10-minute presentation.

Following that we have the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, who will present for the next 10 minutes. That includes Berry Vrbanovic, second vice-president; and Alain Normand, manager of emergency measures for the City of Brampton. They will be sharing their time as well, I understand, for 10 minutes.

Let's start with the College of Family Physicians of Canada.

Dr. John Maxted, thank you.

3:50 p.m.

Dr. John Maxted Associate Executive Director, Health and Public Policy, College of Family Physicians of Canada

Thanks very much, Madam Chair.

First of all, I want to say that if we have 20 minutes to do this, thank you very much. We understood that we would actually have, between Ms. Kasperski and me, five minutes apiece rather than ten. Is that right?

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Five plus five equals ten. I had to get that in. It helps out. Thanks.

3:50 p.m.

Associate Executive Director, Health and Public Policy, College of Family Physicians of Canada

Dr. John Maxted

Thanks very much for inviting us here this afternoon.

I'm a family physician as well as the associate executive director of health and public policy at the College of Family Physicians of Canada, and I certainly welcome this opportunity to meet with you and to discuss what the college has learned over the last several months in dealing with the H1N1 pandemic.

CFPC is the voice of family medicine in Canada. It represents over 22,000 family doctors and it's the professional organization responsible for the standards of training, certification, and lifelong learning for physicians, and for advocating on behalf of the speciality of family medicine. The CFPC champions the rights of every Canadian to high-quality health care.

After the outbreak of sudden acute respiratory syndrome, commonly called SARS, back in 2003, followed by H5N1, sometimes called avian flu, the CFPC released a paper titled The Role of the Family Doctor in Public Health and Emergency Preparedness. Many of the recommendations in that paper emphasized the critical need to communicate effectively during a public health emergency.

If there is one clear message we are delivering today it is this: the need for consistent and timely communication to and with front-line health care providers, including family doctors. Communications must be two-way. Family physicians should not only be advised about how to respond most appropriately to a public health emergency, but also be given the opportunity to ask questions of the Public Health Agency of Canada, provincial or territorial health ministries, and local public health officials.

To government's credit, communications related to H1N1 pandemic improved when compared to SARS, but it could have been better. It's the unknown potential of an infectious disease outbreak on its way to becoming a pandemic that should cause government and public health authorities to strive for optimal communications strategies.

At the recent Council of the Federation meeting in Regina, the Premier of Manitoba referred to H1N1 as a truck coming around the corner. In reflecting on his comment, The Globe and Mail extended the metaphor to the potential for a multi-vehicle pileup in the making. As the editorial concluded, this is no time for Canada to fall asleep at the wheel.

In July of this year, the Royal College of General Practitioners in the United Kingdom presented its members' views of government preparedness for pandemic influenza. Of the 11 categories of concerns identified, the majority focused on the need for more and better communications. For example, the very first concern was the lack of information and conflicting advice.

In our experience, H1N1 communication was variable. Some jurisdictions transferred a wealth of information from multiple sources that resulted in the risk of mixed messages, and others not enough, resulting in family physicians working in uncertainty.

Responsibility for communication must be defined and coordinated to decide who, for example, advises family doctors about the most suitable infection control procedures and escalating levels of precaution and isolation in clinical settings. The CFPC wants to play an important role in communicating with family physicians, but it does not want to deliver inconsistent, untimely messages.

A number of questions were asked by Canada's family physicians about access to resources during the H1N1 outbreak; for example, what masks to use and how to triage patients in practice settings. The practical answers to these questions may vary by location, but they must also recognize vulnerable populations most at risk. We may still question why Canada's first nations communities were hit hard in Canada, but waiting for research on this should not delay our commitment to respond urgently to the health care needs of the first nations peoples and other people at vulnerability with a well-defined and clear plan of action.

To summarize, the CFPC recommends the following actions.

Pandemic information must be provided in a timely and consistent manner to all family physicians and front-line health care providers. This is critical for managing patients who could potentially have the H1N1 flu and who present first to their family doctor in a practice or primary care setting during a pandemic.

Timely public health resources must be readily available, including, for example, appropriate swabs, masks, and antivirals. If local public health authorities haven't delivered these effectively during the H1N1 pandemic, what will happen when twice as many Canadians are asking for an H1N1 vaccine this fall, in comparison to our usual volumes during flu season? And that is in the midst of a potentially larger crisis created by a rejuvenated H1N1 virus.

Family physicians want to be involved in deciding how to respond to a pandemic. They want to maintain regular contact with their local public health authorities and medical officers of health. The CFPC wants to assist in the development and distribution of the most appropriate information for family physicians and other front-line providers, including clinical practice guidelines related to pandemic preparedness and response.

In closing, the CFPC and family doctors in Canada are confident that by working with local provincial or territorial and federal levels of government we can collaboratively improve our public health response to a pandemic outbreak. Canadians expect this of us.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Joy Smith

Thank you so much, Doctor.

Ms. Kasperski.