Health Committee on March 10th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you very much, Dr. Low.

Now we're going to Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much.

I do want to thank the witnesses for being here.

I would like to make a comment, Madam Chair. I think one of the issues we're having here is the way the panels have been set up. Perhaps it would have been better if we had certain, let's say, witnesses in favour of the legislation versus—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Carrie, maybe what we should do after you've asked your questions is go in camera for a few minutes and just discuss this option. We do have more requests that have come up.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Okay. But I do note some of the things that you're bringing up, like the security issues. I know the intention of this bill is not to have the risk 2 groups go through this major security, but for 3 and 4 there is. So there is a bit of reasonableness here.

You know, you or some of my colleagues mentioned timing. You're correct. As with 9/11, things changed into—because Canada does belong to different international obligations, there is an obligation to improve our biosafety, our biosecurity, and that is the intent of this legislation. Knowing that importers have a certain standard, the idea is to level the playing field across Canada.

So I believe we're onside with the intent of it, but there are some significant questions on implementation.

You did mention the consultation processes. I would like to go over that because I do believe, from my information anyway, there was.... The consultation started back in November 2005 with the provinces and territories. That was my understanding.

Again in September-October 2007, the Council of Chief Medical Officers of Health was introduced to the essential elements of the federal framework, and they were invited for their comments.

The Pan-Canadian Public Health Network council was introduced to the essential elements of the proposed framework in November 2005.

Federal laboratories, in November 2006: 87 federal labs were notified that this was going to be happening.

External stakeholders, in September 2007, including representatives of academia, the private sector, distributors of pharmaceuticals, and again some provinces and territorial labs, were introduced to the essential elements of the proposed framework.

Then when Bill C-54 came, there was time for people to react and get some input in through here.

Respectfully, you do have certain legitimate issues that need to be responded to, and I think it would be good if we had a little bit more balance there.

I wanted to highlight a couple of things.

Number one, the fact that the collection, the use, and disclosure of information provisions in Bill C-11, because you did talk about personal information—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Carrie, did you have a question that you wanted to ask as well?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I did want to get a couple of things on the record because I know that—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

A point of order, Madam Chair.

I think what Dr. Carrie is doing, getting this stuff on the record, is interesting. I think the point that Dr. Goel made is the most important one. There is a very different approach to consultation and information. A consultation is supposed to be two-way, and then you're supposed to have some assured listening, that you were actually heard. Somebody has to come back and say we couldn't do that because of this, or you get to see it reflected in the new bill.

What we're hearing from the witnesses is that they were given information sessions. They expressed their concerns at that, and their concerns have not been reflected in this bill.

So I am suggesting that the department—now they may want to come back on Thursday, in terms of Dr. Butler-Jones, and we may have to figure out a different way of doing this, but I seriously think—

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

A point of order that is not; that is debate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I'm going to call this to order right now, because we are way over time and the bells are ringing.

If you'll forgive me, Dr. Carrie and Dr. Bennett, I'll make this suggestion. Obviously we are not doing clause-by-clause tomorrow, but we need to have a very brief meeting with the committee. Our time has run out. The bells are ringing. We have to go to vote very shortly.

I need two minutes with the committee. I ask the committee to remain seated for just a minute, because we have to get to the House for votes.

I want to thank you so much. Your comments were very, very good. I'm not being rude, but we have to get to vote, so would you mind departing so we can go in camera for just a minute? We appreciate your coming.

I do think our schedule has changed for Thursday.

I ask any extra people who are in the room if you could just give us five minutes to discuss as a committee.

[Proceedings continue in camera]