Health Committee on May 4th, 2010

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

The Institute of Medicine is recommending mandatory national standards for sodium content in foods and a gradual reduction in sodium levels. Do you feel that this is an option for Canada, and why or why not?

[Dr. Andrew Pipe]

I think it's very definitely an option for Canada, and I think one of the reasons why it's an appropriate step is that there will be laggards within the food industry. I want to come back again to the question of food safety. I think it's a fundamental public health responsibility of governments to ensure the safety of the food supply.

There are times around about midnight when I get a little bit more grumpy about these matters, when I say maybe we should be talking not about sodium content of food but about sodium contamination of food. All of a sudden the vocabulary in the discussion would change. I realize that probably does a disservice to the use of vocabulary, but it makes the point.

Notwithstanding the very significant reasons for there being certain levels of sodium in food—food stabilization, shelf life, etc.—I think overall what should be the overriding objective is to ensure that food ultimately contributes to the health of those who consume it. To the degree to which a high sodium content is deleterious to health, it seems to me a pretty straightforward conclusion that we should be moving to moderate the sodium content of our food.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Can you—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I'm sorry, Dr. Duncan.

Might I just ask one question of the witnesses? Is that all right with the committee?

Dr. Pipe, what does 2,300 milligrams look like? If we were looking at it this morning, the weight of 2,300 milligrams, what would that look like, say, in a glass like this? How much salt would that actually be, visually?

[Dr. Andrew Pipe]

I'll probably get the figures slightly awry here, but if we were to reduce the average Canadian's diet down to a sodium intake of 2,300 milligrams of sodium, it would be taking a tablespoon of salt out of their daily diet.

Salt is ubiquitous. It's everywhere in food. Most Canadians are blissfully unaware of where the sodium is to be found in their foodstuff. That's the order of magnitude of reduction we would be talking about.

Is that helpful?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Yes, it's a really good answer, because you don't think in a day you actually eat a tablespoon of salt. I mean, you don't realize because it kind of sneaks into all these processed foods.

Thank you so much.

Now we'll go to Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[Dr. Andrew Pipe]

Madam Chair, I may have misspoke myself. I meant teaspoon, and I'm told I said tablespoon. Forgive me—teaspoon of salt.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Oh, a teaspoon. You are forgiven, Dr. Pipe.

[Dr. Andrew Pipe]

Thank you. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Good. Thank you.

Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you.

Thanks very much to our presenters. Most of you we have seen before, and it's great to see you back here again.

I have a question that follows up what the chair was just asking. Could somebody tell me how much of the average Canadian's sodium intake comes from free salt, or salt we add at the table, with the shaker? Does anybody know that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Who would like to answer that?

Ms. Tanaka.

[Phyllis Tanaka]

Roughly 77% comes from processed food products and foods in restaurants, about 5% to 6% at the table or in cooking, and the balance in cooking, I believe, and naturally occurring. It's about 12% that comes from other sources; 5% of that is at the table.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

So very little, then, is added consciously; the rest is in the foods that we're eating, whether they be prepared foods or whether it be naturally occurring. Okay.

That will lead me to my next question, for Mr. Reaman. Right now we don't have any regulations making things mandatory for the restaurant groups to do something different, and to lower them we're probably looking at decreasing voluntarily, from the report that's coming out. Dr. L'Abbé, I'm hearing that it's a voluntary system you will be recommending in your report.

Can you, Mr. Reaman, give me any examples of what your group might be doing now to voluntarily reduce things? I think you've said that they're working towards that already, that there has been some progress made. Could you outline what that progress has been?

And could you also give me your perspective on the difference between mandatory and voluntary as far as the amount of regulation goes, and how it would be seen from your group? Would there be a better opportunity for your group to voluntarily reduce the sodium because of less red tape and all of the things that go with mandatory regulation? If that would be the case, then how do we ensure it would be done if it's not mandatory regulation?

[Ron Reaman]

If I understand the question correctly, there are a couple of points I can respond to.

The first point is to recognize that within the food service sector, we represent about 20% of foods consumed in the course of a day, on average, by the average Canadian. So when you're talking about 77% coming from processed foods and food sold in restaurants, etc., we need to recognize that food service comprises about 20% of daily food intake for Canadians.

In terms of a voluntary versus mandatory approach, I can't speak specifically about individual companies, but what I can tell you—and this is from direct contact and discussions that I have with our membership—is that there are many food service companies who are fully engaged in reducing, reformulating, and testing reformulated products with consumers. So that process is absolutely under way.

Everyone in my industry who I work with directly is fully aware of the process that the sodium working group is undertaking and of our commitment to be part of the solution, in terms of reducing and bringing down the sodium levels of Canadians. So I can tell you that there's a genuine commitment to the voluntary reduction strategy, and I think it's the best way to go for us, as a country, as a strategy. I genuinely believe in that as the way to go.

Does that answer your question?

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Yes, thank you.

Dr. L'Abbé, when you're working with your working group and you're recommending voluntary reductions, are you also looking at timeframes within which those voluntary reductions would have to be met?

[Dr. Mary L'Abbé]

Yes, absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, the working group was setting targets for the food supply, recognizing that those targets would likely be staged over time, but very much that they would be something that could be monitored and evaluated in terms of progress over time.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I have a question for Ms. Savoie.

You stated in your opening remarks that DFC has asked Health Canada to provide the dairy industry the proper time to conduct the necessary research before establishing sodium targets for cheese and timelines for reaching these targets. What is DFC looking at as the proper time? What kind of time do you need?

[Nathalie Savoie]

We have one research program that is already ongoing, and it's on cheddar cheese, which is the major cheese consumed in Canada. The results are going to be available early next year.

For the larger range of cheeses we're looking at, we've just committed the money with Agri-Food Canada. As we speak, this week the different projects are being assessed by our expert committee. So the research would start this year, to be finished in 2012.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

So the research on one type of cheese would not be applicable to any other type?

[Nathalie Savoie]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Ms. Savoie.

We're now going to Monsieur Dufour.

[Nicolas Dufour, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Reaman, I have one question to start off with. A little earlier, you told us that 20% of a Canadian's daily diet comes from restaurants. I would be interested to know the percentage of sodium that they get from that 20%.

[Ron Reaman]

That is a good question. I'm afraid I don't have the answer off the top of my head.

I can tell you that we comprise about 20% of daily food intake in this country.