Health Committee on June 8th, 2010

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Usually a letter about adverse reporting mechanisms goes out to physicians and others. I would say to you that most physicians don't know to tell children they should not be consuming certain energy drinks, and therefore it should be factored in when a child becomes toxic, or ill, or when something adverse happens.

Some letter should go out from Health Canada. In my years as a physician, it used to suggest adverse reporting mechanisms with a particular product. That's what I'm asking. It's a simple answer, yes or no, and then I'd like to hear from the Red Bull people and the Refreshments Canada people.

[Michelle Boudreau]

Certainly. I guess the simple answer would be yes. In the context of promoting and encouraging adverse reaction reports generally, not just for energy drinks but for any product that may be a drug, we have done a great deal to promote that. Some of you may have even read some of the ads that were in The Globe and Mail sometime back.

In January 2006, and then again in 2009, we also issued a “Canadian Adverse Reaction Newsletter”, distributed widely to the health professional community, which reported adverse reactions related to energy drink consumption.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you.

I only have five minutes, so I want to get the answers, please.

Dr. Kadi.

[Andreas Kadi]

I'll try really quickly. Thank you.

Starting with marketing to children, I have to clearly say here that we do not market to children. When you look at our marketing activities, and this hasn't changed over the years—

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Mr. Kadi, you do market to children, I'm sorry. We have enough reports that Red Bull is there at community centres, etc. You may not wish to market to children, but whoever is getting your products is marketing to children. So what are you going to do? I understand that you no longer do it.

[Andreas Kadi]

When you look at the events we are supporting, be it Formula One, be it Air Race, be it Crashed Ice, these are clearly events that are targeted at adults. When you look at the marketing activities we perform, when you look at the universities, for example, starting with students who are 18, yes, this is where we are. When you look at high schools, where students are younger, then this is where we are not. When you look at the advertising we're doing, part of the—

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Please answer the rest of the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Fry, Mr. Shepherd might want to try to get in a response.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Yes, I know. I just wanted Mr. Kadi to answer the second part of the question. We have enough letters from people who have seen Red Bull being marketed at high school events and recreation centres. I didn't get your other answer on alcohol.

[Andreas Kadi]

On alcohol, this clearly also has to do with labelling. The label clearly indicates that this product is not for children and the label also clearly indicates that the product is not to be consumed with alcohol.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Your time is up.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

So you are not aware that it is being sold with alcohol in bars?

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Dr. Fry, I'm sorry. Your time is up.

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Shepherd.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I'm sorry, Mr. Shepherd. Did you want to say something?

[James Shepherd]

As far as marketing to children goes, I was at the Iroquois Park recreation centre, a city-run facility, watching the 13-year-olds' hockey game. That's primarily what's taking place in that facility: children's games and teenagers' games. That was on February 6 of this year.

I believe you were a member of Refreshments Canada then as well.

Leaving the parking lot, I saw a Red Bull Mini with the big can—very attractive to children as well—sitting in the parking lot. I approached. I got out of my car to get a drink. The teenager in front of me took a drink and I took a drink, so I could report the sampling. That was my prime goal: to put everything together.

So I phoned—

[A voice]

You can write it down--

[James Shepherd]

Yes, you can write it down, but it doesn't matter because there are a lot of them.

I phoned the manager of the facility and he said he was surprised that Red Bull was there, because two weeks previously he had to kick them out of the inside of the facility after they were sampling there. Now, apparently they were giving it to people 18 years and over at that point, but he did have to kick them out. He said an employee went to another facility a few kilometres north and found Red Bull there after they'd kicked them out of that facility.

Further to that is the report that she speaks of, a nutritionist, a mother of an 8-year-old and an 11-year-old, in the Aurora Recreation Centre in December of 2008. She filed a complaint alleging that her 8-year-old and 11-year-old children were offered drinks inside the recreation centre.

Coming in here today, I overheard someone saying, “I wonder if they're giving out free samples”. So I don't think these are isolated cases.

Further to that, it is against the Food and Drugs Act, and I can read it to you. I don't need a lawyer to interpret the obvious intent.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Mr. Shepherd.

Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Again, Mr. Shepherd, my condolences on the loss of your son.

I have basically two questions and I want Health Canada and the industry to answer them.

First, Mr. Sherwood, you mentioned in your last statement that there is no evidence, based on these reports of spontaneous adverse events, that the risk of these events is any greater than the background rate in the general population. In fact, the available evidence and reviews by authoritative regulatory bodies around the world suggest otherwise.

We've heard that there have been 21 billion cans consumed, so I would think there should be a lot of information out there. I was wondering if I could ask you, Dr. Kadi, and maybe Madame Boudreau what measures you take to monitor these potential associations of the products.

My second question is this. We know that Health Canada is the most stringent around the world in regulating these products. Could you comment on how caffeine is regulated in other countries?

I did notice on your handout as well, Mr. Sherwood, that even an average Tim Hortons product appears to have more caffeine than your products. I'll admit a conflict here. I drink probably at least two cups of coffee a day. Do you know if there are there any places in the world where they regulate or label coffee and products such as tea and how would they do that?

Those are my questions. Maybe Mr. Sherwood could start.

[Justin Sherwood]

Sure. If you'll allow me, I'll start.

Because as a matter of law energy drinks are regulated as drugs in Canada, Health Canada has a tool at its disposal that probably no one else in the world has when it comes to energy drinks, and that is the spontaneous events reporting mechanism that has been spoken about ad nauseam.

I think the key, when you take a look at those spontaneous events, is that because you are starting to apply a drug-like framework to those products, you have to go the whole way and assess the products with a pharmacovigilance analysis that looks at, amongst other things, background events in the unexposed population. We have indicated that to Health Canada, we're undertaking that work, and we will be happy to provide that work to Health Canada, because, quite frankly, we take these events and consumer complaints very seriously. So there is a tool there.

The second question you asked was relative to how caffeine is regulated elsewhere in the world. It is generally regulated when you are talking about soft drinks as a flavouring agent, because it imparts a bitterness up to a certain level. I think it's a very similar level generally—and I'm generalizing here—to the one being proposed by Health Canada. Then, after that, it becomes more of an additive—is that correct?—a physiologically active substance. Lastly, I'm not aware of anywhere in the world where there is quantitative labelling on coffee or tea and I think it would be very difficult to do.

Andreas, perhaps you could tell us if there are any.

[Andreas Kadi]

Actually, Mr. Chair, the way the European Union approached it in 2002 was to issue a directive on the labelling of caffeine-containing beverages that exempted products with “coffee” or “tea” in the name from this quantitative labelling.

This is actually where consumers run into the problem. They may have very accurate information about the caffeine content in energy drinks, or in Europe with products containing more than 150 milligrams of caffeine per litre, but when they buy these products, they do not have the information on coffee and tea at hand, which I agree won't be easy.

This is because coffee, for example, has a caffeine content that depends a lot on the method of preparation and how you make your coffee. When you go to the big coffee chains, for example, the production is more or less standardized, and they also will not have this information. I think that in order to see how much caffeine you get from different sources over the day, this information should be available to consumers.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I don't think I'm that unusual as a Canadian, but I am looking at your numbers here, and if the issue is caffeine, maybe Madame Boudreau.... Like I said, Health Canada has the most stringent regulations and we know people who think they're far too stringent. But if the issue is caffeine--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

I'm sorry, Doctor Carrie. Your time is up.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

--should we be looking at coffee in other drinks, too? How would we do that?