Health Committee on June 10th, 2010

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Well, many of the things have already been implemented. For example, the revised FIORP is in place as a response to one of her recommendations. There are a number of other recommendations that have already been in place, as well as the thinking around it. While it's sometimes getting the protocols right, etc., it's if the thinking and the approaches have changed sufficiently that we know it's a better system.

One of the things we have to recognize, though, is even with the best food safety system in terms of what we do federally, what the provinces do, etc., the vast majority of food poisonings in Canada still occur in the home through cross-contamination. You make a salad when you've got a sore finger; it sits out; and then you have staphylococcal food poisoning, or whatever.

So good food practices at home are an equally important part of that whole chain. The more we can do that people understand.... Keep cold foods cold, hot foods hot, don't cross-contaminate between the chicken and your salad or potato salad. All of those things can make a tremendous difference. Even the washing of hands can, and we've seen that since H1N1. The washing of hands and avoiding people when they're sick has really improved our food safety as well.

[Meena Ballantyne]

Thank you.

I'd just like to say that the implementation of the Weatherill recommendations will certainly strengthen the food safety system. As you've heard from the listeria policy, industry is working with government, and we're putting measures into place that will most definitely strengthen the food safety system. But as Dr. Butler-Jones says, we can never reduce a risk to zero. You can never know which pathogen or which chemical contaminant may come at us next time.

There is no doubt that we've learned a lot from the tragedy in 2008, and we've put systems in place to ensure that we can mitigate the risk to the extent available.

But we know that science and information change all the time. We've just got to keep up to date with it, which is what we're trying to do. The Weatherill report has certainly added to strengthening the food safety system in Canada.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Dr. Farber.

[Dr. Jeff Farber]

Thank you very much.

Just to add to what Ms. Ballantyne said, as I mentioned before, we've already seen changes in the meat industry. For example, there are companies that are using ultra-high pressure to inactivate listeria. There are other companies that are using inhibitors to actually inhibit the growth so it never gets to a level that can cause disease. These changes already have made a significant impact, and we will continue to work.

As was mentioned before, you really have to look at the whole farm, what we call the farm-to-fork system. We've been working, for example, with CFIA and Agriculture on on-farm food safety programs. We work at the processing level to work, for example, systems such as hazard analysis critical control point systems to improve those. Then, on the consumer end, we're also working to improve that. All in all, I think we've definitely made excellent progress on this.

Thank you.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

It's interesting you were mentioning that there's a lot being done through this implementation and that work's already been completed. You mentioned that you can't eliminate the risks altogether. A lot of this has to do with what people do at home, their cooking practices, and their understanding of what to do and what not to do.

As Canada is obviously a very multicultural place, a multilingual place, this information is good. As you said, it needs to be distributed in many different formats, and that's good. Is it being produced in different languages? Or who's responsible for that?

[Meena Ballantyne]

We haven't yet given any thought to producing it in different languages, but we can certainly take that into consideration, because you're absolutely right. We had Canada's Food Guide translated into 10 different languages that are prominent here. We can certainly take that into consideration.

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

In addition to that, when you think of it as a system, local public health often does that and then we facilitate the sharing of translation so that others can make use of that. Toronto has made very extensive efforts at translating key documents for the public, etc. I think one of our things is to try to make sure that we don't have to do that over and over again. So people who do have access...because, again, linguistic access is key.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

You're right; I think it's not a matter of just the government doing it. As long as it's getting down to the people, whoever at the local level is doing it, as long as it is being done--that's what's important.

Several of Weatherill's recommendations dealt with the need to modernize and exercise the food-borne illness outbreak response protocol, or FIORP. What is FIORP used for, and what are the government's priorities related to it?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

The FIORP, clearly, is to make clear the relationships and the actions that are taking place, and who does what and how we do it, and to make sure there's a clear and easy flow of communications, etc. It's now been approved at the deputy minister level, both on the agriculture and on the health side. It is now in place, in effect. It's posted on the website, etc., and that will guide our work.

We will then be testing it in terms of different scenarios as well as in real-life situations. We have a commitment to make it “evergreen”--that is the jargon--to make sure that any learnings from future events or from the tabletops, etc., that we do can then be incorporated into it.

Basically, it formalizes the learning from every event, and that learning gets applied, hopefully consistently. This will assist us in ensuring that there is consistent application, across the country, of the underlying principles.

[Tim Uppal, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Do I have more time?

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Joyce Murray]

No, you're done.

Dr. Bennett.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thanks.

This is a follow-up on Mr. Uppal's question on translation. Certainly during H1N1 a lot of the smaller public health units were very concerned that even handwashing documents would have to be translated and then retranslated back, because translators are not public health officials, and therefore sometimes the message could be like bad karaoke: when you bring it back, it isn't what you meant.

It's expensive to have it translated and retranslated. Is there a reason that the Public Health Agency of Canada or Health Canada doesn't produce this in a number of languages that then could be shared with public health?

Coming from Toronto, it seems a bit not fair that this is all done on the backs of Toronto Public Health. Outside Toronto, say, where there's a small Portuguese community, why don't we just do it for them? Wouldn't that be leadership?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

I'll tell you why. Having been a local medical officer who does those translations, or has those translations done, we were constantly having to retranslate the stuff that came from the federal government or from the province because--

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

But now you're in charge, David.

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

No, but we would.... It's not from a scientific standpoint. It's because the local community would say, “But that's not how we speak the language.” We'd use the local community to translate it in a form that is the way they speak.

Again, French communities in Kapuskasing use the language a little bit differently, perhaps, from French communities in Penetang. At least that's what they told us. So it is important to be able to adapt it locally.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Okay.

Recently Dr. King's report on H1N1 was sort of saying that Panorama is necessary and that we have to get on with it. What is the status of Panorama; when can we expect it; and what are the obstacles to having it now?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Again, Panorama is something used primarily by provinces and territories. It's a case management tool, but it also has surveillance components so we can access the data.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Do you have information-sharing agreements with each of the provinces and territories now?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

We have an information-sharing agreement with all provinces and territories, related to information sharing and public health emergencies. We have one specifically with Ontario. We were using that as a model for other jurisdictions. Other jurisdictions have different considerations, so we're doing bilateral relation stuff, but we're getting the information we need, which is the bottom line. We are working on having formal agreements, as the AG requested, to ensure that we have formal agreements. It has not stopped us in any way from getting the information we need.

In terms of Panorama, some of the resources are actually going to pilot and implement Panorama around food-borne outbreaks, so we'll see how that works. We're doing that with the provinces and territories.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Regarding concerns around communication, as you know, people think that once something hits the food system--BSE is an agricultural problem if it's not in the food chain yet--it's a public health issue. In your FIORP, or in whatever, in a future listeriosis outbreak, would it be very clear that the Chief Public Health Officer of Canada had the lead and we wouldn't be having press conferences run by the agriculture minister for something that's clearly a public health issue?

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

It's clear in the FIORP that once it's a human health issue, it's public health. If it's confined to a local jurisdiction, then they'll be responsible for that, and we will provide support if they need it. If it crosses jurisdictions or is international in scope, then the agency will be the lead.

In terms of press conferences, unfortunately when listeria started, I was in my other headquarters, in Manitoba, where I was based, and so I was on the phone all day long every day but not at the press conferences held in Ottawa. That's why I wasn't there in the first days. I was there a couple of days later, once I got to Ottawa, but unfortunately they were no longer being broadcast live. While I was at all the press conferences subsequently, they just weren't broadcast live so there was an illusion that I was not involved, but I was behind the scenes constantly, and I was speaking out publicly.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

I think the issue--

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Joyce Murray]

Your time is up.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

-- is that it should be the press conference of the Chief Public Health Officer and not the Minister of Agriculture.

[Dr. David Butler-Jones]

Well, I think there are political--