Evidence of meeting #35 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was bank.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
So then currently, if you're looking for umbilical cells, we don't have a Canadian-wide system. We've asked to look at a Canadian-wide system. Where are the sources right now in terms of...?
We talked about some private banks, but those are really for people saving for “self”. Are there different centres throughout Canada that perhaps have a collection of umbilical stem cells for...?
Physician, Pediatric Hematology and Oncology, CancerCare Manitoba
The standards that are applied to banking cord blood for use in transplantation from one person to another person, which is the field of blood and marrow transplantation, are very different from the private banking. At this point, we have the young but really well-developed Héma-Québec bank, which is just now at the point of being ready to release cord blood units for transplantation. We, as a transplant program, will routinely search their inventory. But their inventory of 2,000 to 3,000 cord blood units is dwarfed by an international inventory of probably close to 600,000 cord blood units that we can now search. When we're looking for a cord blood unit, we're looking for the best immune match and we're looking for the most number of young blood-making cells.
Chief of Research, Hospital for Sick Children
I would just point out that what this means is that most of the cord blood transplants that take place in Canada are using material that's imported from outside of Canada, because we are not really paying our way into the banking system.
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
That was what I was going to ask about, that we're not really paying our fair share. For the proposal that is in, what's the cost? Would there be centres across Canada? What are some of the details around what it would actually take in terms of setting up a pan-Canadian system?
Physician, Pediatric Hematology and Oncology, CancerCare Manitoba
There is a formal OneMatch proposal that has a full business plan that's been developed in.... I think probably the best way is to get that directly from Canadian Blood Services.
There are many ways of going about establishing a Canadian cord blood banking system. That is one approach. There are other ways that can be attacked. You have a really nice solid base with the Héma-Québec bank operations at this point.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Thank you.
Now we'll go on to Monsieur Dufour from Quebec,since we talked about the Quebec bank.
Bloc
Nicolas Dufour Bloc Repentigny, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I am happy to see the advances being made vis-à-vis Héma-Québec.
First of all, allow me to thank the witnesses. It is a privilege to participate in a debate as interesting as the one on stem cells. We are all aware of the importance they will have in the future.
Mr. Lyall, you stated earlier that, in the future, this is an area where there will be a lot of job creation, many of these jobs high-paying ones. At the present time, what does the economic picture look like with regard to stem cells? Do we know how many employees will be required? What is the investment worth? Do we have a global idea of the economic picture?
Chair, Board of Directors, Canadian Stem Cell Foundation
It's very difficult to quantify those kinds of opportunities. I should maybe caveat the comments as well, by saying that for some of the therapies that are going to be developed—so we think of bone marrow transplantation as one paradigm—there isn't really a business built around that. It's a procedure that is done in a hospital, and we need to understand exactly how to isolate those cells, how to transplant them, how to give them to a patient. So in those kinds of cases, it's not so much that you're going to generate large numbers of jobs there as that you're going to get cures to patients and return them to economic productivity, and there'll be a benefit to the system from that.
But separately, as new drugs are identified using stem cells as screens to identify those drugs, just as biotech companies start now—discovering jobs through other mechanisms—so biotech companies will spin out in that way. Similarly with cell therapy companies; Geron is a good example. To give some scale there, Geron has brought the first embryonic stem cell therapy to clinic. It has something like 200 employees, I believe, and they've raised over $100 million in venture capital financing just for the development of that single therapy. When you start applying that kind of metric across many different kinds of therapy, you can see that there are going to be a lot more opportunities there.
There are also economic opportunities in other aspects too. There's a fabulous company in Vancouver called STEMCELL Technologies, and they have built their business around, if you like, the picks and shovels of the regenerative medicine business. They provide tools and reagents to companies, and they've grown from a company of 50 to 100 employees 10 years ago to over 400 employees now. They're supplying the regenerative medicine research market.
So there'll be opportunities there. Then you can start thinking about the wider opportunities of different kinds of tissue repair. There are all kinds of different companies that are likely to spin off it and the expertise that you then build as a country in that space.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Thank you, Dr. Lyall.
I think Dr. Dhaliwal, before our time runs out, would like to make a comment as well.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Provincial Clinical Director of Oncology, CancerCare Manitoba
I have just a quick comment.
It's not only that new jobs are created but also that there is the potential of loss of jobs, because this will be a very competitive field in which researchers, clinicians with expertise in this area, would be heavily headhunted internationally. We are in a global market arena, and therefore there is loss of expertise elsewhere, which will translate into loss of capacity and our ability to lead in a field that we have led. I believe there is an opportunity cost if we do not act.
Bloc
Nicolas Dufour Bloc Repentigny, QC
I agree with you. I simply wanted to have an idea of the investments in this area on the part of the government of Canada. As Dr. Dhaliwal was saying, if we do nothing in this area, the scientists will leave the country, as has been the case in other fields of research since 2006. Researchers have left for foreign countries because of the consistent lack of funding in various fields of research. We saw some of them go to Florida, to California. We see that this is not necessarily a priority for this government. I find this sad because the more we invest, the greater chances we will have of retaining quality researchers.
What does the government's investment in this area look like?
Conservative
Scientific Director, Stem Cell Network
Without question, federal funding of research, through the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, has not kept pace with the capacity that's been added or with inflation. The proportion of grants that have been funded is in free fall. The times are very tight right now.
So Canadian researchers look to places like California. It's very tempting. I'm headhunted several times a year. A few times, I've had to really think about it. But I'm a Canadian, and I'm pretty nationalistic, and...but anyhow.
Scientific Director, Stem Cell Network
The funding is very tight right now. New investigators are having a hard time getting funding. Established investigators are losing their funding. On the proportion of grants, I think the last CIHR competition...that was funded was 18%, and it's expected to become even smaller.
You know, this is an incredibly important area for Canada, and there's a very essential role for the federal government to support research that's basic, that's translational and clinical. Without the CIHR we cannot do this work.
Conservative
Conservative
Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I also want to thank my colleagues as I continue developing my rudimentary understanding of this issue. I apologize if these questions seem basic, but they are helping me kind of frame the issues.
On the umbilical cord issue, if you were looking at, say, a Canadian bank, first of all, are there challenges around collections? Could mothers who deliver in small hospitals in rural communities be donating? Is there a percentage of newborn infants that would be optimal?
Perhaps you can talk a little about what it would mean and what the process would be.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Dr. Wall, I can just see you smiling, ready to answer there. Go ahead.
Physician, Pediatric Hematology and Oncology, CancerCare Manitoba
I'm speaking for myself now, and not necessarily for other cord blood banking operations in Canada.
Absolutely any cord blood bank that's developed in Canada needs to be established such that no matter what size of hospital or where it is, you can collect that cord blood unit. That translates into putting the resources into developing the tools to train the collectors, and it's not rocket science. It's not a complicated procedure to collect the cord blood unit, but you need to have transportation.
We have special transportation challenges in Canada, but nothing insurmountable. We're good at this.
Then we need creative ways of meeting good manufacturing practices with a distributor network.
All of this is surmountable and would really improve the quality of the Canadian cord blood bank in being able to represent the true flavour of who makes up Canada.
Conservative