What do you mean by “the challenges”?
Evidence of meeting #37 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agency.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #37 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was agency.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Well, basically, we're all awaiting a decision by the Supreme Court. Did you find that affected your day-to-day functioning?
11:50 a.m.
Professor, As an Individual
I think that was certainly described as an issue once it had reached the Supreme Court of Canada, but I think it's important to appreciate that this challenge started very shortly after the legislation was written.
In case you don't know, I was the person contracted to write the ethics expert opinion for the federal government in that case, and there was certainly no impact in principle on the ability of Health Canada to write regulations and move them forward in those initial days.
The reality is that the legislation was passed in 2004. In order for that piece of legislation to become functional, it needed a bunch of regulations to be passed. Only one regulation--consent to use--has been passed today. It is true that because of there not being other regulations, it's not an operational piece of legislation. I think that's very distressful, but that is a function of many complicated issues, not merely the fact that it's currently sitting before the Supreme Court of Canada. There was a lot of time before it was before the Supreme Court of Canada.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Thank you, Ms. Baylis.
Now we'll go into our second round: five minutes for Q and A.
We'll start with Dr. Duncan.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses.
In your opinion, should the budget for 2008-09 be tabled?
11:50 a.m.
Professor, As an Individual
I don't know if it exists. I assume something went to the federal government, so there must be something that could be tabled. I've never seen that budget.
I would also anticipate that, in theory, the budget for 2010-11 should be available.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
In your opinion, if it exists and these other budgets exist, should they be tabled?
11:50 a.m.
Professor, As an Individual
Can you tell me what it means, “be tabled”?
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Thank you.
Can you comment on whether the minutes should be tabled at this committee?
11:50 a.m.
Professor, As an Individual
I think you should have access to all of the minutes. I don't think you'll find anything very telling in them. I have brought with me a binder that I'm prepared to leave here. It's not available in French, because I didn't have the time to do it twice, but these documents have all been translated.
They are all the documents that have to do with anything to do with the budget. I've done the work of going through every piece of paper I have so that you would actually know at least what a board member received with respect to the budget, which may be more or less than what's available otherwise with respect to the budget.
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Conservative
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
What I'm struggling with is that the board was responsible for the approval of the agency's budget. As my colleague said, many of us have sat on boards. If you aren't aware that there was a budget for 2008-09--and I don't know when you joined the board--how did the money get spent? Was that spending reviewed? Was it reviewed quarterly?
11:50 a.m.
Professor, As an Individual
No, and that will be very clear from the documentation I'll leave behind. What I'm used to, as a board member, is that prior to the fiscal year starting, perhaps six months before the fiscal year starts, you're given a budget, which details where you expect your expenditures to be. So you have a bunch of estimates, and then as the year progresses, on a quarterly basis, you have that set up against actuals, and you move through them.
That was not the case. As you'll see, the budget for 2009-10, for example, was being discussed in June and being voted on at a teleconference, which, as I said, I did not participate in.
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
We were being shown, for 2008-09, government planning and priorities, I believe, what you have to submit to the government. It's like an overall sort of roundup of numbers by program. They're just the top numbers. That's what we were shown for 2008-09.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
I'm struggling with the 2009-10 budget. There's an initial number of $368,000, and that jumps to $1.7 million. Can you detail what was in that $368,000? These would seem to be core competencies, core jobs, in the agency. They were HR and corporate services. What was Strachan-Tomlinson doing? And then how did it jump to $1.7 million, and what were the services?
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
We were told originally that the three consulting contracts were for HR, corporate services, and one company; and then, when it was at $1,722,300, that....
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Are you able to tell us more about what those services were?
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
Not really. I don't have that....
It was “other professional services” and “consultants”, including temporary help.
No, it was just a line in the spreadsheet that was $1,722,300. The agency didn't have a lot of full-time equivalents, so they used a lot of consultants. That's why I questioned at the beginning that it was only $368,000. I thought that was kind of low for an agency that didn't have a lot of full-time employees. I figured that they were using a lot of consultants to get things done. The number seemed low, but then it just skyrocketed.