Health Committee on Feb. 3rd, 2011

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Mr. Jeffery, you are aware of what was said by the Health Canada representatives who were here two days ago. You alluded to this in your presentation. Can you tell us whether like Mr. Godefroy, you are to some extent satisfied by the decrease in the daily consumption of trans fats? We have gone from 5 grams to 3.4 grams a day, but we must remember that the quantity recommended by the WHO is 2 grams per day. Do you think that the gradual strategy proposed by Health Canada is sufficient to reach that objective?

[Bill Jeffery]

By Health Canada's own admission it hasn't been successful enough. In my testimony I referred to an estimated 1,800 premature deaths due to trans fat consumption--heart attack deaths, on average--using as a basis the current 3.4 grams of consumption per day. That's not something we pulled out of a hat. It's from working with numbers the U.S. Food and Drug Administration used to assess the risk in the United States.

It's true that if you accept the evidence Health Canada has provided, it seems that trans fat is coming down a little bit, although I'm even suspicious of some of that. They looked at 45 categories of foods, and only 11 of them were compared at more than one point in time. So it's not very convincing.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Do you think we should adopt the trans-fat reduction strategy that was submitted to this committee last Tuesday, or should we be a little more aggressive?

[Bill Jeffery]

My recollection is that he referred to a bunch of hypothetical additional strategies.

In 2006, the Trans Fat Task Force, after almost two years of deliberations, said, regulations: here's what they should look at. A lot of public health authorities across the country took that seriously--Ontario, Manitoba, and British Columbia. They did what they could within their constitutional powers.

I think it's incumbent on the federal government to take a decision that will have a permanent public health benefit.

[Luc Malo, Bloc, Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC]

Like Ms. von Tigerstrom, you suggested that labelling be made easier to read so as to better inform consumers of product content. I remember that in 2007 when we studied obesity among young people, we had considered a system of red, green and orange lights. This idea was set aside, because it seemed a little simplistic. What do you think?

[Barbara von Tigerstrom]

There has been criticism that the traffic light style of label is too simplistic. There are a number of competing styles of labels, or formats of labels, but none of them is perfect. I think we have to admit that. They all have strengths and weaknesses.

The strength of the traffic light format is that it gives people a very quick picture of the strict facts, but also an overall assessment. They can see at a glance, if they're concerned about fat or salt and it has a red light, that it's something they should stay away from. That format also usually gives objective information on the amount of each nutrient. Just having that amount alone doesn't seem to add much to what we already have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, Ms. von Tigerstrom.

We'll now go to Ms. Hughes.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Leo, we are talking about labelling. I would like to know whether your organization has any comments or suggestions regarding changes to be made to labelling as such.

I would also like to make a comment. At Christmastime, my husband gave me a new deep fryer that only requires one tablespoon of oil. I saw that you were a partner in the company that developed this fryer. It is really a good thing.

[Aileen Leo]

Thank you very much for the question.

With regard to your first question, in terms of labelling, to my knowledge we don't have an official position on labelling for packaged foods over and above what we said leading up to the regulations in 2005. We were supportive of those regulations. I'm not aware of subsequent positions by CDA since that time.

In terms of menu labelling for large restaurant chains, we did support Madam Gélinas' private member's bill in the legislature of Ontario last year—I believe it was May of 2010—that required specific calorie labels for large restaurant chains.

With regard to your second question, personally I don't know if we were involved in that. I don't think so. I wish we had been. I think it's a great idea. Anything that lessens the burden of obesity is a wonderful idea, given the stats we just heard earlier about the percentage of Canadians who are overweight and obese.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

The book that was included did actually have recipes from the Diabetes Association, so it was really good.

But just to go back—and it's unfortunate we don't have a lot of time, because we have a big panel and I think we have lots of questions for everybody—I do want to touch base, though. My husband is diabetic and he's not obese, and he wasn't obese when he became diabetic. There are different types of diabetes, and some people can actually have sugar and others have to avoid it a little bit more.

I want to go to Mr. Jeffery. You didn't get a chance to finish your speech there. You talk about nutrition-based food tax reform, which you didn't get to. You talk about healthy breakfast programs. That's the one that I kind of want to touch base on at this point.

At our meeting on Tuesday we talked about the fact that the government should actually move forward on this, and how important it would be for children to have these breakfast programs. I'm just wondering if you want to elaborate a little bit on that with respect to the importance of that.

[Bill Jeffery]

Yes.

Unfortunately, this is an issue where you get insight into seeing what governments in Canada are doing by looking to what they're doing in the United States. The United States last month proposed relatively strict nutrition standards for their school meals. They've had a long history of subsidizing school meals. Their subsidies are now up to about $14 billion a year—billion—which works out to about $1.27 for every child per day, on average, who is enrolled in school. By contrast to that $1.27, in Canada it's about 3.5¢ or 4¢, which is really a pittance. What that means is that school meal programs are very few and far between, and sometimes it's just one class in one school or a school in the neighbourhood or something. This is an opportunity where public funds really could be used to help kids consume more fruits and vegetables and whole grains.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

The other one I have, because it's been mentioned a couple of times, was with respect to nutrition information on restaurant menus. The U.S. has actually started that. I was just wondering if there has been any pushback from the restaurants themselves or if they have found that this has been a positive thing. Is it actually attracting consumers?

It's quite interesting, because MPP France Gélinas has been trying to push this through Queen's Park as well, but it's national and not just provincial. So maybe we could have a couple of comments on that from you, Mr. Jeffery, and from Barbara.

[Bill Jeffery]

In the United States, the national restaurant industry association has been categorically in favour of it, although probably not for altruistic reasons. They saw a proliferation of menu labelling standards, which were all a little bit different in various municipalities—New York City in particular, Seattle, and others—and states, including California, and they were concerned that their members would have difficulty trying to comply with a bunch of different standards, so they were fully in support of it when it came time to supporting the Obama bill.

In Canada, the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association is nominally in favour of it. They were members of the Sodium Working Group, and there was a recommendation about this there. But I know that in response to Madam Gélinas' bill in the Ontario legislature, they were opposed to it. There was a bill in Parliament a few years ago that they were categorically opposed to, and lobbied vigorously to kill, and were successful, unfortunately.

[Barbara von Tigerstrom]

I have just a couple of quick comments.

In the U.K., they also did a trial on a voluntary basis--it was a voluntary but official program; it is different from what we have here. The experiences from both the consumer and the restaurant side were very positive in terms of the consumers' response, and the restaurants found that it wasn't as burdensome or as costly as they had feared.

The other point is that from all of the studies that I have looked at, they suggest that once you introduce nutrition disclosure, it generally is revenue neutral. Even though it does tend to shift people's preferences, choosing one product over another, it doesn't overall result in a loss of revenue for the food outlets.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

What about the cost on that--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you.

Thanks so much, Ms. von Tigerstrom.

We'll now go to Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses for being here today. I'll let you know that I'm one of the those guys who like to eat a lot. I like to eat a lot of different things. I'm thinking about my Christmas holidays. I come from a multicultural family, and a lot of Canadians do. Some of the foods I ate over the holiday I think some people would judge as being unhealthy foods. But if you look at the history of these diets, people who eat these diets can overall have a very healthy diet.

We hear of people trying to judge foods sometimes as being healthy foods or not healthy foods. There was an interesting article—I think it was the Ottawa Citizen or the Toronto Star--and they asked what can Canadians do? There are all these diets out there—the Ornish diet, the Zone diet. One of the comments they made was about one gentleman who had a diet of Twinkies and Doritos, I think, and he looked at caloric restriction. At the end, he lost weight, sure enough, and his cholesterol levels went down.

For me, there is a lot of confusion out there. If I could live on Twinkies and Doritos, maybe that's something I would look at.

Maybe I can ask the Sugar Institute. You did mention that you work with dietitians and nutritionists. With all the confusion out there, what are some of the recommendations you could make so that Canadians could improve their eating habits?

[Sandra Marsden]

With respect to the Government of Canada, I think more could be invested in education and promotion of healthy eating and physical activity, and collaborating. I think a lot of this is written into the pan-Canadian healthy living strategy and other strategies and recommendations, but certainly more could be done to facilitate and foster that collaboration with associations, with industry. It's a combination of having good information on labels, education, and promotion. The consumer needs to be enabled to make good decisions, and that includes schools and healthy eating programs and policy and education in schools.

There's no one approach; it's multi-faceted.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Is it wise to label foods as healthy foods or not healthy foods in general, would you say?

[Sandra Marsden]

As a dietitian, my view is that food should not be labelled as good or bad. Diets are good or bad. It's the pattern of eating. Among 33 million Canadians, there are 33 million patterns of eating.

It's enabling consumers to, in many cases, lower their caloric intake. There is no one individual food that is going to solve that. Of course, you will lose weight on Doritos and...I forgot what the other one was--

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I think it was Twinkies.

[Sandra Marsden]

--because you're going to lose interest in those foods. But you're also not meeting your nutrient requirements. It's a lot of common sense. However, our lifestyles are such that it's not always easy to make the right choices at the right time.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

You mentioned engagement too in education and the government role in that.

Maybe I can ask the Canadian Diabetes Association. In the fall, the minister was out in Newfoundland and made a historic declaration, I think in partnership with the provinces, about an obesity framework.

I was wondering, what did your organization do to contribute to that? Could you let us know in committee how that worked?

[Aileen Leo]

Certainly, we were very pleased to see that declaration.

There is an epidemic of obesity in this country, as well as people who are overweight. I think it's important to include both of those things. While we were certainly pleased to see a commitment to reduce obesity, particularly childhood obesity, following up on the report from this committee almost four years ago, in terms of its study on childhood obesity, we would strongly urge provincial and territorial governments, as well as the federal government, to broaden that focus and approach to include people who are overweight, both children and adults. Unless we do that, the incidence of chronic disease associated with being overweight and obese will continue to increase.

Yes, we were pleased, but we'd like to see a broader, more targeted focus.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you.

I am pleased to see we have somebody from the University of Saskatchewan here, in that we're talking about educating the public and giving the facts.

I remember, when visiting Saskatchewan with the industry committee a few years ago, there was something that really impressed me. I met with some researchers at the university. They had come up with an innovative product. It was a biscuit filled with flaxseed and fibre and all this really good stuff. I think it could lower cholesterol levels.

You mention in one of your recommendations about labelling and health claims, things along those lines.

What can the industry and educators do to help get that message out so that Canadians can make choices? My background is in natural health care. I think perhaps instead of taking medication, there may be dietary things that people could do. What can we do to get that message out in a better way?