Evidence of meeting #53 for Health in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foods.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Ujjal Dosanjh Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Are you suggesting a combination of the two, a combination of the lighting and the facts?
President, Canadian Medical Association
I really took to heart that we should highlight some of the nutritional value of what's there and not just the bad things. We would all recognize that some of the foods that we might find in the grocery store might not have very much in the way of nutritional value, so I think I would highlight both, but I do believe that a simple standardized approach that can be easily seen and recognized--once we get used to that system--by all members of our community, once they're informed slightly, would be of benefit.
Assistant Director, Nutrition, National Programs, Dairy Farmers of Canada
As a dietitian, I wish nutrition were simple, and I would be out of a job. That would be my goal, but that's not the reality.
The nutritional facts table is there. It's not perfect. I think it can be improved, but at least it doesn't risk telling people that diet soft drinks are healthy and milk is not. I can give you many examples of systems that try to oversimplify a complex thing. I truly understand that the complexity is a difficulty for people with low literacy, and I think we should improve the nutritional facts table, improve the education, and perhaps give back some of the credits to the wholesome, nutrient-rich foods.
Although I know that processed food is part of our diet, I don't think people are eating enough fruits, vegetables, whole grains, milk products, legumes, nuts, and so on. I could go on. Those are the foods that may be at risk with a system that oversimplifies nutrition.
Dr. Maura Ricketts Director, Office of Public Health, Canadian Medical Association
Part of the issue that arises here, I think, has to do with the level of processing in food, which is an unspoken topic at this table. I think the products over to our right do a good job of illustrating it.
Milk and milk products such as cheese and yogourt are barely processed at all. It may be that it is unsuitable to use the same kinds of symbols on both barely processed foods and highly processed foods; in fact, the problems arise in highly processed foods. I'd like to draw the committee's attention to that aspect of things.
Indeed, you can take what was a good food, such as yogourt--and I hope I won't fall into contention with my neighbour here, since she is quite close to me and could be lethal with a pen--and convert it into something that perhaps isn't all that good if you add huge amounts of sugar to it.
Conservative
The Acting Chair Conservative Tim Uppal
Thank you.
I'm going to have to cut you off.
Monsieur Malo is next.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
According to Ms. Jobin, one way to improve the nutrition facts on foods is to standardize serving sizes. Currently, in fact, consumers are unable to compare two products on the same shelf. So, when they are buying cereal, cookies or crackers, they cannot compare nutrition facts because the serving size is different.
Last Tuesday, we had Mr. Duhamel, from Dietitians of Canada, before us. He was saying that the issue was quite simple and we could address it rather quickly. Mr. Sherwood, from Refreshments Canada, also said that it could be done relatively easily by his industry.
Mr. Nighbor, can you tell us whether the members of your association intend to quickly adopt this solution? It is not a panacea, but it is relatively simple and gives users and consumers a tool so they may more easily compare products they are purchasing within a category of similar products.
Senior Vice-President, Public and Regulatory Affairs, Public Policy, Food and Consumer Products of Canada
I'm happy to respond to that. As many of you will know, schedule M of the food and drug regulations does outline the criteria. I want to be clear that there are criteria in place in stores, restaurants, and so on across the country, and those criteria are enforced by CFIA.
One of the examples that came up--I think it was earlier this week, when a gentlemen from the Dietitians of Canada was speaking--was about differences with respect to cereals. In fact, there are two different standards for cereal. If you have a flaked cereal or a puffed cereal, as opposed to a more dense oat-type cereal, those are going to measure differently in a bowl in the morning, so there are some categories....
We were engaged with Health Canada and a number of other stakeholders in the drafting of these regulations many years ago. We're always prepared to sit down and talk. We've told folks at Health Canada that if there is research that shows there are significant problems and that this table needs to be revisited as the food supply changes, we owe it to ourselves at some point probably to revisit this schedule.
I want to be very clear that there are rules that my member companies need to follow. They can't just make that up and put different serving sizes on there. I even think of bread versus a bagel. A bagel is about a 90-gram serving size, but you would compare that against two pieces of bread for a comparable meal, which is about 70 grams.
Once again, I don't want to dismiss the question, because it's one we hear often, but when you're comparing like products, there are inherent complexities because they're not exactly the same.
Bloc
Agrifood Analyst, Representation and Research Department, Option consommateurs
I have an example before me. I have two bottles of Quick, one is chocolate flavoured. On the first bottle, which contains 14 ml, it says 33% less sugar. On the second bottle of Quick, the chocolate one, the serving is 20 ml . So you are comparing a 14 ml portion and a 20 ml portion. On the 14 ml portion, it says 33% less sugar, but that is because it is smaller by 6 ml.
Senior Vice-President, Public and Regulatory Affairs, Public Policy, Food and Consumer Products of Canada
I'd like to see the chocolate one, because I'm not going to make an assumption based on seeing one of two products.
I want to be clear that there are rules in place. Our members follow those rules. If there are compelling issues that any groups around the table or Health Canada want to raise, that's why I have a job. It's to work through those issues with our members and see where improvements need to be made if there are science-based problems in the marketplace. I'm not going to dismiss those concerns. We're happy to talk about that stuff.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Do your members want to provide clear information to consumers? Was this clearly expressed by your members?
Senior Vice-President, Public and Regulatory Affairs, Public Policy, Food and Consumer Products of Canada
Definitely. I look at the work we've done in reformulation. About 84% of the trans fats have been taken out of the food supply in just three years. The sodium work we're doing already speaks for itself. When you talk about labelling around sodium, there are strict requirements around when you can state on the label that you have reduced the sodium. There's about a 25% threshold, so if you reduce it by 10% or 15%, you're not allowed to put that on your packaging.
We need to be clear that there are very clear rules in place for having an excellent source of claim in those areas, rules that are enforced by the CFIA.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Ms. Savoie, earlier on, we heard from Ms. Reynolds, from the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association. I will quote her and ask you for your comments.
One of our challenges, as an industry, is that we would like to do more milk promotion: we would like to put more dairy products on our menu. But quite frankly, because the cost of milk is rising far faster than the cost of production, the Canadian Dairy Commission is pricing milk right off our menus. If there is something the government can do to address that issue, we will be thrilled.
Assistant Director, Nutrition, National Programs, Dairy Farmers of Canada
Mr. Malo, last year, the retail price for milk in Canada increased on average 0.5% whereas the consumer price index went up approximately 2% or 2.5%. It cannot be said that the price of milk for restaurants is increasing more quickly than production costs.
However, we can say that the farm-gate price is based on the cost of production. This farm-gate price is more or less set for all dairy farmers throughout Canada and it does not rise more quickly than the consumer price index.
Bloc
Assistant Director, Nutrition, National Programs, Dairy Farmers of Canada
I cannot answer for the restaurant industry. However, I can say that, as dietitians, we are quite concerned by the fact that Canadians are not consuming enough dairy. A great deal of research is being done to understand how we can help them change their behaviour. We do not find the price of dairy to be an obstacle for most Canadians. In fact, the greatest obstacle is the fact that they do not realize they do not consume enough dairy products. The second greatest obstacle is the fact that they are not all that concerned with the problem. A poll conducted by Ipsos and Dietitians of Canada showed that cost was only an obstacle for 6% of the Canadians surveyed.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Mr. Décary-Gilardeau, in your presentation, you referred to a traffic light system. You said it was a quicker way to provide information on the front of a package. You also referred to another method we have heard very little about around this table. Could you tell us a little more about that?
Agrifood Analyst, Representation and Research Department, Option consommateurs
We are doing a great deal of work with consumers on the traffic light system. As an aside, I should point out that consumers like to have a system in place that lets them see where a product fits on a scale without having to compare two products. In this respect, the traffic lights, the colours, are good things because that way consumers only have to pick up one product and can see right away where that product appears on a list of the 10 or 20 best products. The program is in development. Just this week, a food distributor in New York...
Conservative
The Acting Chair Conservative Tim Uppal
Thank you. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to cut you off. I did give you some extra time because I also gave Mr. Dosanjh some extra time.
We'll go to Ms. Ashton.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
Thank you.
My question is for you, Mr. Décary-Gilardeau. It has to do with Quebec's position on nutrition ads for children.
I represent a constituency in northern Canada where the population is very young and often aboriginal. As you know, there are significant challenges in the area of nutrition. There are several serious problems, like diabetes. The situation is going to get worse in the future according to what medical experts have told me.
We are interested in the Quebec model and the results of the Quebec government's decision to ban advertising for children, particularly with regard to food.
Agrifood Analyst, Representation and Research Department, Option consommateurs
Of course, we have always been in favour of this ban. Children are very vulnerable to advertisements. This is something we have known since Piaget, they are very vulnerable. In fact, children are unable to understand the fact that someone is trying to sell them something.
So it seems obvious to us that this measure would be rather easy to apply to the rest of Canada and would have very long-term consequences on eating behaviour. When you teach very young children certain food habits, they often last a lifetime. So, we are very much in favour of extending this ban on food advertising for kids.
However, I am sorry, but I am not sure I understood the first part of your question.
NDP
Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB
We do not have a ban like that at home. Aside from advertising, there are other issues, like cost. It is far more expensive for people to buy fruit and healthy food. It is far cheaper for families not to eat healthily. That said, it may be useful to have appropriate information and also to use other cost-related measures which would better serve families.
Do you have any ideas on that, perhaps?
Agrifood Analyst, Representation and Research Department, Option consommateurs
There is something very interesting that has been proven in Europe, I am sure Nathalie could talk about this as well. We often talk about banning adds for unhealthy food. Well, I think one of the best options, and also one of the cheapest, is to provide quality food at no cost directly to children.
The school board in Montreal is asking for this. They say that hungry children do not learn as well. The cheapest thing, at the end of the day, is not to produce advertisements or educational programs, but to provide apples, milk and healthy products free of charge. That will benefit everyone.
The cost of basic goods is quite concerning in northern Canada and northern Quebec, an area I am somewhat more familiar with. I look at this issue once a year and I am quite troubled by it.