Health Committee on Dec. 7th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

No. In all due respect, Ms. Davies, would you pay attention, please?

With all due respect, we have our business meeting where this could be done. We know about the shortage of time. If we had a large expanse of time, we would go in camera, but it was a surprise that this was going to happen today, even though it was done 48 hours ahead of time.

I'm appealing to the committee to take into consideration the fact that the witnesses are here. We can deal with this on December 14, when we will have a two-hour meeting. This, I promise you, can be put at the top of the agenda of that business meeting. This is not, in my opinion, what we should be doing now, when we know the bells are going to ring and we will not hear our witnesses.

If we could put this to a vote right now, then, we could maybe get this business finished today, and it won't come up on the business day.

Let's vote.

Shall we sit in camera, then?

This motion is going forward, so all in favour?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Chair, I'd like to make a point of order about going in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Yours was presented first.

Okay, go ahead.

[An hon. member]

Can we vote on going in camera, Madam Chair?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'd like to raise a point of order on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Since this has started, we're going to have to slow down a little bit.

Witnesses, I'm sorry. My apologies to you. I've tried to readjust this. It's not going to be possible to hear you for a few minutes.

Clerk, could you explain the two motions that are there and what we have to do, if they insist on keeping them?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mrs. Mariane Beaudin]

We have two motions on the floor presently. The first one was Madam Quach's motion, which is debatable, and votable once the debate is over. But we also have the motion to sit in camera, which is not amendable and not debatable. So I leave it up to the committee to—

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I would like to call a point of order on that ruling.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We can go in camera and do this now. If you want to do this motion right now, we can do it.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Chairperson, I have a point of order about our going in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Okay, go ahead.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I want to raise a point of order on the procedure of our committee to move the meeting in camera.

I know the clerk will probably cite O'Brien and Bosc, second edition, which says, in the context of the types of meetings:

Committees usually switch from meeting in public to meeting in camera (and vice versa) at the suggestion of the Chair, with the implied consent of the members. If there is no such consent, a member may move a formal motion to meet in camera. The motion is decided immediately without debate or amendment.

My specific difficulty, though, is with that last line. I believe it's incorrect and has created a series of problematic practices for our committee.

Madam Chair, I could read pages of this, because we do have a procedural point as to why we shouldn't go in camera. But I can forgo doing that, because I know you want to get on to the witnesses, and that's certainly something we agree with.

There's no reason to go in camera, because this is a legitimate motion to come before the committee today. We followed the rules, so either we deal with the motion that is before us.... We feel that our opportunities to raise these issues have been very limited on this committee, so we would like to—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Which standing order have we circumvented? You asked to make a point of order, and from what I'm hearing it is not a point of order.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

This is a point of order about going in camera, Madam Chair, and I'm prepared to read the whole—

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

You were talking about a point of order based on your motion.

O'Brien and Bosc states:

When recognized on a point of order, a Member should only state which Standing Order or practice he or she considers to have been breached—

—for that point of order

Can you tell me which standing order we have breached for your point of order that we continue this?

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Well, Madam Chair, I'd have to go through the whole point of order section of O'Brien and Bosc to establish that. If you want to do that, that's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Well, you planned this ahead of time, so perhaps you should have had that information at your fingertips.

The other motion is to go in camera.

Can we deal with that one?

[Anne Minh-Thu Quach, NDP, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Out of respect for all the witnesses present, I would just like to know whether the committee supports this motion, so that we can discuss it. We don't have to debate it today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Can we put it to a vote now, Ms. Quach, and get your motion dealt with, then, if you insist on prolonging this? Can we put it to a vote now?

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

What are we voting on, Madam Chair, please? I'm not--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

We read it out.

Mr. Strahl.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I have a motion on the floor. If we insist on talking about future business, I will insist on having a vote on that motion--

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

--that we go in camera.

Yes, we do have that motion.

There's no point of order, so we're going to vote on the motion to go in camera.

All in favour of going in camera, raise your hands.

[An hon. member]

Wait, wait, wait--

[An hon. member]

It's not debatable.