Thank you.
Evidence of meeting #71 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #71 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was students.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
I would like to ask questions of all of you, but I don't know if I will have time.
Mr. Denniss, you talked about building a framework within a hospital in order to work with industry and work on issues of procurement. Do you have any suggestions on what that framework might need to look like or where you would, in fact, start?
4:25 p.m.
As an Individual
Other gentlemen at the table would probably be better able to actually give specifics. I was just saying that, at a higher level, it seems like something that would be needed. I'm not sure if there are hospitals that are doing that. The ones that are doing it—well, again, since we're on the topic of sharing and collaboration, should be sharing that with other groups to drive this innovation.
Just to circle back to the point of collaboration, because the other gentleman asked about the difference between the U.S. and Canada, I found that both health systems are in trouble. I would like to put it out there that the U.S. health care system is privatized, and that has some advantages, but it also has some disadvantages because they compete with one another within the health care space. We're a relatively public health care system, and that means that we cooperate, so there is an impetus to share any initiatives done in certain hospitals that are funded, because that will help us get out of the problems that some people say are the public health care system's problems. Some of the things that could have created it could also solve those problems.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Is there collaboration happening with institutions in the United States or internationally to ensure that there is effective knowledge translation and avoidance of research overlap in some of these areas?
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Vice President, Research and Analysis, Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada
I'll take a crack at it. I don't have a definitive answer for you.
Certainly I would say that on the international scene that's challenging, especially where it's a commercial “survival of the fittest” approach. But I think where there has been some success—and coming back to some extent to your red tape issue—is in some of the collaborative efforts within Canada around, for instance, how clinical trials are done. It can be difficult for industry to conduct a clinical trial in Ontario at a university and to get over certain hurdles, and then, when they want to do it in Alberta at the University of Alberta, they find themselves confronted with the same hurdles.
There have been calls to have a national approach to clinical trials, so you come in once, you do your ethics, and you establish protocols. Then, centrally, you're looking for connections to patients to run the trial through. I think it's that kind of innovative approach, perhaps run through CIHR, to look at how we can do the work of research, and patient-oriented research at times, to run it most efficiently.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Thank you so much. You gave a very good answer saying that you really didn't have an answer. It was extremely good, thank you.
We'll now go into our five-minute round of questions and answers. We will begin with Dr. Morin.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
Dany Morin NDP Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
My questions are for the witnesses from the Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada.
When I heard that you were coming to provide evidence, I wondered what kinds of questions I wanted to ask you. The first thing that came to mind was improving the health of indigenous peoples. I think that is one of your many roles. Could you tell me what the members of your association are doing to make sure that more first nations doctors are entering the workforce so that their communities' health care needs can be better served?
As we know, indigenous populations are in poorer health than other Canadians and they have quite a unique socio-economic situation. That is why it might be better to send first nations doctors onto reserves and into their communities to help the people there rather than to send white doctors who do not necessarily understand their reality.
You did not have the time to talk about your recommendations, but I was pleased when I read them. I was pleasantly surprised. Recommendations 2 and 3, which deal with…
medical education opportunities fund. I want to know more about that. I am so glad you mentioned that you want to allocate funds, and that you wish, if I understand correctly, that the federal government would launch a fund that would allocate funding to clear the growing backlog of eligible aboriginal students wishing to pursue post-secondary education, etc. Tell me more about that.
Specifically, you also mentioned a backlog. Tell me more about that backlog. You mentioned that this fund would invest in local pipeline projects. Can you give me examples?
4:30 p.m.
Vice President, Government Relations and External Affairs, Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada
I have three minutes to go. I think I'll do some of that by follow-up. I have taken note of that.
Let me answer your first question first. For the last 10 years, when I arrived seven years ago at the AFMC, there was a project that had already been in the pipeline for a long time in terms of addressing aboriginal health and well-being.
There were two major components to it. One was ensuring that the physicians we graduate are capable of delivering culturally competent care to aboriginal communities. That involved making significant contributions to the curriculum, making sure that when you graduate, you are able to provide culturally competent care.
The second component was around recruiting aboriginal applicants to medical school and retaining them. As you said, the best case scenario is to graduate more aboriginal physicians. Seats were allocated across the country specifically to self-identified aboriginal students. The data that we have is not 100% correct because you can get into a seat without self-identifying. What I can tell you is that not all of the seats were even filled. It isn't that the faculties haven't gotten on board and tried to promote that.
We have larger socio-economic barriers that occur long before the decision to apply to a medical school happens. If we're going to fix the problem in this country, it's not at the medical school level. It's not at the university level. It's at the K-to-12 level, I believe, that we need to be making major investments. That will cascade across all of the other issues in terms of where aboriginal students go to school. I will follow up on those other questions to you off-line.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
4:30 p.m.
Vice President, Government Relations and External Affairs, Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada
In terms of the pipeline project, our proposal is mirrored after some very successful United States experiments. In the United States, the experiments we were looking at were around getting more African American applicants into medical school. In our situation, we were adapting it a little bit because the bottom line is that we have a very homogeneous medical cohort.
These involve things as simple as bringing high school students into offices and medical environments for a week-long period over the summer, and perhaps giving them a stipend to do some work.The best way to get someone to pay attention is to pay them a little bit of money. Even if they are doing filing, they are also watching what is happening. They are learning about the medical encounter.
I have to tell you that if you're an aboriginal—you as a young person in an aboriginal community—chances are, your interactions with the medical workforce have not always been particularly positive. Having them in an office working, talking, and having lunch with a nurse and physician—it's a different way of encouraging people to see that as a possible profession. That's one example. The pipeline projects are multi-dimensional and they are meant to get at all levels. It's an entrepreneurial approach.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
That was very interesting, thank you.
Thank you, Dr. Morin.
We'll now go to Mr. Lobb.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Absolutely. Could you send the papers to the clerk, and we'll distribute them?
4:35 p.m.
Vice President, Government Relations and External Affairs, Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada
I will certainly do that.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
My first question is for Dr. Jalali. It's in regard to your commentary on e-learning. You're from the University of Ottawa. How do you use an e-learning platform in your classroom to better affect the outcome of your students?
4:35 p.m.
Medical Doctor, As an Individual
I teach anatomy, and in my classroom we had lectures and labs. As you know, with all the active learning that is around, more active learning is promoted, and with the accreditation that the AFMC was talking about.... We eliminated all the lectures in anatomy and we replaced them with short podcasts. Before coming to the class, the students have to listen to the podcast, and then we use a method that's called a “flipped class”. What happens is the lecture is outside the class, and when they arrive at the laboratory we sit around the specimens and discuss the objectives of the day. That's the way you can use e-learning.
The other thing we do is YouTube videos, so they can have a look at the images, and online learning where they can go online and colour the muscles, etc. Everything that people can memorize, frankly, you don't need to teach them. If something can be memorized, just give it to people and let them memorize it. Let's bring it up and discuss this kind of stuff. That's the very important part of e-learning.
The other thing is that you can also promote collaboration and communication this way, instead of everybody just sitting there listening to me, and they say I'm a professor and I'm talking. Let them talk, let them teach each other.