Health Committee on May 21st, 2013

[Dr. Chris Paige]

I'd love to see the Business Development Bank of Canada step into that. We'd be partnering with biotech companies that exist here already. We do a lot of partnering already. This is not something that happens exclusively inside the hospitals.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

My next question is to Mr. Kirkconnell.

You gave some stats, but not too many. In terms of dollars, how much does BDC invest in innovation, as you called it?

[Paul Kirkconnell]

Innovation is a broad term because it would cut across different parts of our bank. I could speak of venture capital.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Okay.

[Paul Kirkconnell]

In this past fiscal year, we authorized $145 million in direct and indirect investment.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Of the $145 million, how much would be in the health care sector? A percentage.

[Paul Kirkconnell]

I don't have it here, but I can get that information.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

Is that part of the strategic plan, how much you're going to put into innovation itself and then how much is going to go into the health care sector? Is that a year-to-year decision that the bank makes?

[Paul Kirkconnell]

It's part of our corporate plan, which is revised every year. But we like to think it's not a radical revision when we do it.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

What's the total budget for BDC? It's in the billions, right?

[Paul Kirkconnell]

The total assets would be in the $17 billion to $18 billion range.

[Massimo Pacetti, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

So $145 million would be just a fraction, or that's just a yearly—

[Paul Kirkconnell]

That's yearly versus total balance sheet. Also, on a bank loan there would be ten-to-one leverage. On a securitization there would be twenty-to-one leverage. On venture capital there's zero leverage.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

Thank you, sir.

We'll now go to Mr. Wilks.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thanks to the witnesses for being here today.

I will run the gauntlet across the line. Pardon me if I forget if you're a doctor or Mr. or Mrs.

Mr. Casey, you spoke about host conditions, and with regard to Canada you mentioned that we're more in a pull mode than a push mode. I wonder if you could define that a little more for the committee. How do we get from a pull to a push?

[Andrew Casey]

Thank you for knowing I'm a Mr. and not a doctor.

I think that's entirely correct. We've got a system where academic research drives stuff out without a lot of recognition of what the industry would like to see brought forward. If we could work more closely together at an earlier stage, that would be helpful. When you look at some of the programs that the government is supporting, they also are set up so that if you look at the CIHR, NSERC, and NRC, as my colleague noted before, there's a tie there that binds them somewhat in terms of working quite closely with academics. We would advocate that they work a little more closely with the industry. We could then develop ideas and identify the opportunities out there that the industry is seeing. A lot of my members are global in nature and are working quite closely with the smaller companies that Mr. Carrie referred to as well. There is an ecosystem whereby the larger companies are working quite closely with the small companies in this country.

To complete that circle would be to bring it all together at the academic or bench level, if you will, so that we take something out of the university structure and bring it to the commercialization phase as a collective, rather than just pushing it out there, like putting a baby on the doorstep and hoping somebody comes by and picks it up.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you very much for that.

Mr. Haj-Ahmad, you mentioned out-licensing. You said in some of your products it was a kind of rollout and in others you held back. Could you give the committee some understanding of what that is, in particular maybe one of the licensed programs you used in out-licensing in a test period?

[Dr. Yousef Haj-Ahmad]

The technology I'm referring to is the isolation and verification of DNA, RNA, micro-RNA, from all types of biological systems. Very early on, I out-licensed to Agilent Technologies one particular application utilizing our technology, and I used the revenue from that out-licensing to fuel the company's growth. I turned around and licensed an additional application into toxin removal for injectables to another company and used that revenue to fuel the company's growth.

Very often, when you have a patent application, you have broad claims, and you cannot exploit all these claims as a small company. In my case, I exploited what we were good at. What we're good at is mainly producing tools for scientists all over the world. My employees are just scientists, and these scientists simply know how to do science in the lab. They put it in a box and we sell it. We commercialize tools. Our biggest purchasers of these tools are from all over, but mainly the U.S.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Dr. Fernie, I think I remember that—

[Dr. Geoff Fernie]

Not a physician doctor, a research doctor.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Near my home town of Fernie, British Columbia.

[Dr. Geoff Fernie]

Relatives of mine.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

There you go.

I wanted to touch upon a couple things.

[The Chair, Conservative, Joy Smith]

You only have about 10 seconds.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I thought I had seven minutes.