Evidence of meeting #24 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was alcohol.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hilary Geller  Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Robert Ianiro  Director General, Controlled Substances and Tobacco Directorate, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health
Hanan Abramovici  Senior Scientific Information Officer, Office of Research and Surveillance, Department of Health
Meldon Kahan  Medical Director, Women's College Hospital, As an Individual
Harold Kalant  University of Toronto, As an Individual

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's about that time, so we're going to get our committee started this morning.

We're kicking off a new study this morning, so we have some guests here from the department, for the first hour. Then in a second hour we have some other guests, one appearing here and the other by video conference.

So we'll get started. Here today we have Hilary Geller, Robert Ianiro, and Cindy Moriarty. I'll see how accurately I pronounced your names when it's time for you to speak.

Now with your presentations, do you collectively have 10 minutes to present this morning or is it 10 minutes each?

8:45 a.m.

Hilary Geller Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health

No, it's just me.

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Okay, we'll let you get started, and then we have our set way that we do our questioning.

Ms. Geller, go ahead.

8:45 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health

Hilary Geller

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to appear before the committee to discuss the health risks of marijuana use.

My name is Hilary Geller. I'm the assistant deputy minister of the healthy environments and consumer safety branch at Health Canada. My colleagues are responsible for various programming aspects that collectively support the government's ongoing efforts to protect Canadians from the health risks associated with illicit drug use.

Robert Ianiro is the director general of the controlled substances and tobacco directorate, and he can discuss questions regarding Health Canada's role in regulating controlled substances such as marijuana. Cindy Moriarty is the executive director of health programs and strategic initiatives, and she is involved in Canada's national anti-drug strategy programs.

In my remarks this morning, I will provide a brief overview of the principal drug control legislation in Canada, and following this, some surveillance data regarding the health impacts of marijuana use, including knowledge regarding public awareness of the associated risks of using marijuana.

I understand that you'll be having the opportunity to hear from research experts, as well as representatives from national and other health care organizations over the course of your study. I'd just like to say that at Health Canada we do not perform the kind of basic research that they do. However, we do rely very heavily on their work and the advice of their experts to help inform us when we make decisions around drug scheduling, youth outreach, and Canada's participation in various international drug policy fora.

As the committee begins to examine the harms associated with marijuana use, it may be helpful to have an overview of the legislative framework that governs controlled substances like marijuana. The Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the CDSA, is Canada's federal drug control statute. It provides a legislative basis for the control of substances that can alter mental processes and that may cause harm to the health of an individual or to society when abused or diverted to the illicit market. Hundreds of substances are regulated under the CDSA. Those substances range from prescription opioids, like codeine and morphine, to street drugs, like crystal meth.

The CDSA fulfills Canada's international obligations under three United Nations drug conventions, all of which aim to ensure access to controlled substances and the chemicals that are used to make them for legitimate medical, industrial, or scientific purposes, while subjecting them to tight controls to reduce the opportunity for diversion from the legitimate supply chain. So the CDSA has a dual purpose: protecting public health and maintaining public safety.

The act also sets out the offences in the form of direct prohibitions on many activities involving controlled substances, such as production, possession, distribution, import, or export. In this regard, of course, legitimate activities are allowed, but they're only allowed when they're authorized through regulation or an exemption from the act. The act also sets out the penalties for offences.

As you may know, Canada is one of four countries that have some form of a medical marijuana regime. This regime exists under the new, as of last June, marijuana for medical purposes regulations. These regulations enable access to marijuana for medical purposes to individuals who have the support of a health care practitioner. However, dried marijuana is not an approved drug or medicine in Canada, and Health Canada does not endorse its use. Notwithstanding that the courts require Canada to provide reasonable access to a legal source of supply of marijuana for medical purposes, the recreational use of the drug remains illegal under the terms set out in schedule II of the CDSA.

Substances regulated under the CDSA are grouped into six schedules. In determining whether a substance should be added to one of the schedules to the act, and to which schedule, Health Canada considers six factors: international requirements and trends in control or scheduling; the chemical and pharmacological similarity to other substances that are already listed under the act; addiction liability and the potential for abuse of the drug; evidence of the extent of actual abuse in Canada and internationally; risk to personal and public health and safety; and legitimate use—therapeutic, scientific, industrial, or commercial.

The UN conventions, to which I just referred, form the basis of the global drug control regime as it exists today and the general prohibitions on activities involving marijuana. Canada is consistent with most other countries in having marijuana regulated as a controlled substance. In fact, marijuana has been regulated as a controlled drug in some form or other in Canada since 1923. Since 1996 it has been listed in schedule II of the CDSA, which includes the plant itself, its derivatives, preparations, and similar synthetic preparations.

Emerging information suggests that marijuana is stronger today than it was in the past. As a result, the potential for harm to physical and mental health may also be greater today. While the evidence detailing the increasing potency of marijuana is largely based on U.S. and European data, there are indications that the situation in Canada is similar.

Information obtained from Health Canada's drug analysis service provides some evidence that the levels of THC in marijuana steadily increased between 1988 and 2010. This evidence is consistent with data seen in other jurisdictions and suggests a significant increase in the THC levels in marijuana available today, in contrast to a few decades ago.

When considering the increased potency of marijuana, it is also worth noting the high rates of reported marijuana consumption among Canadians who seek to access drug treatment services. In the 2014 “National Treatment Indicators Report”, the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse reports that cannabis is the second most commonly used illicit drug among individuals accessing publicly funded treatment services.

In addition to the impact on treatment services, hospital administrative data provides important information on the impact marijuana use is having on the health system. Data collected by the Canadian Institute for Health Information on marijuana-related hospitalizations show a steady year-over-year increase in the total number of cases where a diagnosis is related to marijuana. For example, in 2008-09, 11,800 admissions to hospitals across Canada were related to marijuana. The number nearly doubles when looking at the same data from 2012-13, when over 21,000 admissions were linked to marijuana use.

Knowing that marijuana is stronger today than it was in the past is important when you consider that marijuana is the most commonly used illegal drug in Canada. Data from Health Canada's 2012 Canadian alcohol and drug use monitoring survey shows that 10.2% of the general population reported using marijuana in the past year, and that men are nearly twice as likely to report using it as women.

Rates among youth are about two times higher compared with adults, with 20.3% reporting having used marijuana in the past year. Canadian youth are among the highest users of marijuana when compared to their peers in other developed countries. This is despite the fact that rates of use among youth in Canada have been declining over the past number of years.

It is clear that Canadians are using marijuana more than any other illicit drug. It is equally clear that Canadians, particularly young Canadians, are not aware of the health risks associated with marijuana use and that they view it as a relatively harmless substance.

For example, the 2009-10 health behaviour in school-aged children study, administered by the Public Health Agency of Canada, showed that among youth in grades 9 and 10, 25% reported using marijuana in the past 12 months; 10-12% reported using it three or more times in the past 30 days; and a substantial number of youth reported that they felt there were slight or no risks when they were asked about the potential health risks.

In addition, a public opinion survey conducted as a part of our national anti-drug strategy confirmed that while parents and youth are aware of the risks and harms associated with drugs like cocaine, crack, ecstasy, and crystal meth, very few identified marijuana as being harmful.

Notwithstanding the evidence that Canadians and youth in particular do not associate a high degree of risk with marijuana use, under the national anti-drug strategy the government has prior experience and success in educating youth and parents about the harms of illicit drug use.

In an evaluation of the national anti-drug strategy mass media campaign a couple of years ago on the harms of using hard street drugs, it was shown that there were positive results. For example, 25% of parents who saw the TV ads talked to their children about the harms of drugs. There was also an increase in the number of youth who said they understood, knew about the potential effects of illicit drug use on relationships with their family and their friends, and looked for further information. In addition, one in five kids who saw the ads took some action, most talking to or warning friends about the dangers of drugs.

The progress made under the national anti-drug strategy to inform youth and parents about the dangers of hard street drugs can inform new efforts to help Canadians understand the harms and risks associated with marijuana use, and to help clarify any confusion resulting from the public debates surrounding medical marijuana in Canada and legalization in the United States.

Health Canada's national anti-drug programs are already enabling stakeholders to better understand the effects of marijuana use, in particular on youth. For example, the Minister of Health recently announced funding of $11.5 million over five years to the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse to reduce drug use among youth, including for research into the impact of marijuana on brain development and impaired driving.

In addition, in an effort to engage key stakeholders and experts in the field,Minister Ambrose met with leading researchers and health care professionals yesterday, on April 30, to discuss the scientific evidence on the health impacts of marijuana use by youth, as well as to identify strategies for raising the awareness of Canadians as to its risks.

In conclusion, while rates of marijuana use in Canada remain high, and there is evidence that Canadians are not as well-informed about the risks of marijuana use as they are about other illicit drugs, the national anti-drug strategy and its successes provide us with a strong foundation upon which to take action to address the harms associated with marijuana, particularly among youth, and more broadly to better inform Canadians and assist them in making healthy choices for themselves and their families.

Thank you.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We'll get started. The NDP will ask the first round of questions for seven minutes. Mr. Gravelle, I'm guessing that you'll be the person starting the first round?

8:55 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Yes, I will be.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Okay. I'm not sure if Mr. Gravelle will be asking his questions in French or English, but you folks are likely well aware of the earpieces if you need to have translation.

Go ahead, sir.

9 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for being here. This is a very interesting subject that we're about to discuss.

One of the things that I do as a member of Parliament is that I call my constituents when they send me a note. It just so happens that last night I had a note on my desk to call a lady by the name of Claire and a phone number, so I called her. It just so happens that Claire is 60 years old and she's a user of medical marijuana. She has gone from 17 pills to two pills since using medical marijuana.

In your opinion, what is more harmful to her body, smoking medical marijuana to relieve her pain, or the fact that she was taking 17 pills at one time? So if you go from 17 pills to two pills and medical marijuana, what harm can that do?

9 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health

Hilary Geller

Thank you for your question.

In terms of the specific harms to an individual and pills versus smoking marijuana, I'm afraid I'm not a physician and I don't feel qualified to answer that specific question. I guess what I will say is that there is a regime to make dried marijuana for medical purposes available to Canadians, with the support of their health care provider, if they and their health care provider feel that is what is best for them.

9 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

I have another constituent I've been working with for the last couple of years. He's in a long-term care facility. He has MS and he's dying. He's also a user of medical marijuana. What harm can it do?

9 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

I have a point of order.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Yes, point of order....

9 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I respect what the opposition member is saying, but we have a medical marijuana regime in place and it's recognized by the courts with regard to medical marijuana. Those who choose to get a prescription from a medical doctor can do so. The medical doctor can make that decision as to whether that person is eligible to ingest medical marijuana. However, Health Canada officials here today are not medical experts and cannot answer those types of questions.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Thank you, Mr. Wilks.

This isn't cutting into your time, Mr. Gravelle.

9 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

That's fine.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

I was going to make a point after Mr. Gravelle was done his questions just for the benefit of the entire committee, and I probably should have mentioned it before. Just as we've had with other studies in this committee, for the analyst's purposes there is a very clear motion that was passed, and the report will reflect what is in that motion. Obviously, if we go on about medical marijuana and asking questions about medical marijuana, that won't likely be in the study. So for the benefit of our analyst and being able to poll and glean answers and questions that are relevant to the motion, I can't tell you what to ask, the only thing I can say is that if you ask the questions along a certain line, there's almost a 100% chance it won't end up in the main study.

But, be that as it may, thank you for your point, Mr. Wilks. It really isn't a point of order, but it is a good point of information.

Mr. Gravelle, we're about two minutes and fifty seconds in, so you have about four minutes to go, sir. Go ahead.

9 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, but the study we are undertaking today is health risks and harms, and that's what I was asking about—harms. For this patient who is using medical marijuana because he's dying, basically, what kind of harm would that do to him?

9 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health

Hilary Geller

Thank you for the question.

I think I just have to, I'm afraid, make a similar response to the first, which is that I'm not a physician. Those decisions are made between a patient and his or her physician, and the physician is in the best position to assess other alternative treatments and whether, in fact, marijuana for medical use is in the best interests of that patient.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Thank you.

In this report or this information I have here from the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse, one of the things here says that long-term cannabis use does not appear to produce significant, lasting cognitive impairments, problems with memory retention, or other cognitive problems in adults.

Can you comment on that?

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health

Hilary Geller

I understand that you'll be hearing from the CCSA or representatives of it shortly. They no doubt will be able to give you a more detailed response to your question. I think what you'll be hearing from the experts is that there is an emerging field of evidence about the specific and particular harms of marijuana to youth related to the developing brain, and that those effects can have a lasting impact for many years, and potentially for the rest of their lives.

I can tell you that is what you'll be hearing from the scientific experts. I think in terms of effects on people who are older, I understand it's like many of these things, a complicated interaction between the age that you begin the use, the amount that you use, the strength of the product, and certain genetic predispositions, etc.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

You have one minute and a half.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Thank you.

On page 12 of your comments, you mention research into the impact of marijuana on brain development and impaired driving. Can you tell me at what age a brain stops developing, where marijuana would have an effect on it?

9:05 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Healthy Environments and Consumer Safety Branch, Department of Health

Hilary Geller

I would respectfully suggest that this would be a question that the scientific experts would best be able to answer. What I can tell you is that the research shows that the earlier you start marijuana use, the riskier it is. Certainly at the round table yesterday with the minister, where there were many experts, they were talking in the range of early to mid-twenties. But again, I am just repeating to you what people who are much better qualified and with more expertise would tell you.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

I consider all of the witnesses who come in front of any committee to be experts. That's why I'm asking these questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.