Evidence of meeting #25 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was study.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Andra Smith  Associate Professor, University of Ottawa
Michel Perron  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse
Kevin Sabet  Executive Director, Smart Approaches to Marijuana
Amy Porath-Waller  Senior Research and Policy Analyst, Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

We'll get our meeting started.

We have three witnesses here this morning for our study. What we'll do this morning is we'll have our witnesses here in Ottawa present first, and then Dr. Kevin Sabet will present third. I think everything is set. There are some handouts for the third presentation, and I think we have to print off a few of the English versions, so we will have those done before it's time for the doctor's presentation.

There's one other little housekeeping item before we get started.

Everybody has been waiting with bated breath to hear about when the main estimates will be presented. It looks as if it will be May 15. We've been able to get the minister to appear for the first hour, and of course as is typical, the staff will fill in for the second hour. Put that in your calendars, and we'll send that out. If there is any further discussion, we can have it at a later time.

Mr. Wilks.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Just for clarification, is the meeting on May 15 going to be here, or do you know that yet?

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

I'm almost certain—and the clerk can confirm—that the next three meetings will be at Promenade, and not 1 Wellington. We will try to do our best.

We'll carry right along here. We'll start off with the University of Ottawa, and Dr. Andra Smith.

Go ahead, please, for 10 minutes.

8:50 a.m.

Dr. Andra Smith Associate Professor, University of Ottawa

Thank you very much for inviting me today. I believe this is a very important endeavour, and I'm happy to be a part of it. I am an associate professor in the school of psychology at the University of Ottawa. I'm a neuro-imager and a neuroscientist.

One avenue of research that I have pursued is how drugs of abuse impact the brain, specifically in youth, during executive functioning. The research I'll be discussing today was funded by the Ontario Research and Development Challenge Fund, ORDCF, and the National Institute on Drug Abuse, NIDA.

This research was performed on a sample of the Ottawa Prenatal Prospective Study participants. OPPS is a study that was started by Dr. Peter Fried at Carleton University in the seventies. It was designed to investigate the impact of prenatal marijuana exposure on children.

There are so many variables that are at play when determining the impact of marijuana on the brain that it's really important to have pre-marijuana measures of the participants. This is what really makes the OPPS population unique in the world, as these participants have been followed and tested every two to three years from the time they were born until they're teenagers and young adults.

There are three other longitudinal studies in the world—in New Zealand, in Pittsburgh, and in Europe—but the OPPS is local, it's Canadian, and it does offer a wealth of information on its participants. Approximately 4,000 lifestyle variables have been collected, including both prenatal drug exposure to marijuana, nicotine, and alcohol, as well as teenage use. The longitudinal nature of the study is really what makes the empirical results so powerful.

As the study went on, Dr. Fried was detecting subtle effects in top-down processing in participants that were exposed prenatally to marijuana and also in those who were starting to use marijuana themselves. He wanted to know more though, so he asked me to perform functional magnetic resonance imaging, fMRI, on them. What is functional MRI? It's a brain imaging technique that allows us to use a regular clinical MRI scanner, but it examines the brain as it works. You're measuring and quantifying blood flow as a person is doing a cognitive task in the scanner.

One of the advantages of fMRI is that it has a level of sensitivity that can uncover differences in brain activity that you wouldn't normally see in just a regular standardized neuropsychological assessment. The tasks that I administer are executive functioning tasks. Executive functioning is an umbrella term for several cognitive processes that consist of decision-making, planning, organizing behaviour, setting a goal and achieving that goal, while inhibiting inappropriate responses and not getting distracted.

We used fMRI during four executive functioning tasks, including working memory, impulsivity, and sustained attention in the OPPS participants when they were between 18 and 21 years of age. We explored both the long-term impact of the prenatal exposure as well as the teenage use of marijuana on brain activity.

To touch briefly on the prenatal exposure findings, one of the most surprising results was that even after 17 years, even more in some of the participants, we were able to detect significant long-term impacts of that prenatal marijuana exposure on the patterns of activity in the brain during executive functioning. We were able to say this confidently because we could control for so many variables due to the longitudinal nature of the OPPS. The more prenatal marijuana the participants were exposed to, the most significant the differences in blood flow.

This is a critical finding given what seems to be the public perception that marijuana has no substantial health risks. It came to my attention recently that some pregnant women are using marijuana for their morning sickness. I was quite surprised at this. Using marijuana for morning sickness may have its short-term positive effects for the mother, but really, the long-term consequences for the child surely outweigh those immediate ones.

I think this is fairly intuitive. We do have empirical evidence, though, and it's mounting, for the adverse effects of marijuana in pregnancy for both the mother and the child.

In addition to the prenatal effects, what I really want to focus on today is the investigation into the teen use of marijuana and its impact on brain activity, brain functioning, during executive functioning.

Where we found our biggest significant results was in response inhibition, or impulsivity. This was a cognitive domain where we detected the most significant effects. Response inhibition allows for successful adaptation to the environment: recognizing unexpected situations, making plans, changing behaviour accordingly. Again, we're comparing our young adults, 18 to 21, from the OPPS, who smoked marijuana regularly. We're looking at them and comparing their brain activity with the brain activity of those who had never smoked marijuana regularly. Regular use was defined as more than one joint per week, and the average consumption was about eleven and a half joints per week.

Despite similar performance among our groups on our response inhibition task, there was a significant difference in brain activity during the task, depending on how much marijuana was smoked. The more marijuana that was smoked, the more brain activity there was, and the more brain regions were recruited to perform the task. These results were most robustly observed in the prefrontal cortex, and this was the same outcome for all the four tasks that we performed. We did working memory and sustained attention, also. More marijuana exposure was related to more widespread brain activity. You might think increased activity is a good thing, but that's not the case. Increased neural activity is actually interpreted as having to work harder, having to engage more brain resources to respond accurately.

This type of demand on the brain is a sign of a required or a necessary compensation. Over time and/or with challenges to that circuitry involved, the brain can't compensate any further. It gets fatigued and it falters. If put into more real-life situations, the marijuana smokers may not be able to adapt or compensate as they can with the easy tasks that we give them to do, and then problems with cognitive efficiency can arise. This is particularly problematic at this time of brain development when the prefrontal cortex is undergoing fine-tuning and optimization for future success. The prefrontal cortex is like the CEO or the band leader of executive functioning. It's really what distinguishes humans from other animals and allows for higher order cognitive functioning that we really rely on for success in the world, whether it's in relationships or in academics, or in professional life.

Our brains are not fully developed until well into adulthood. The development of the brain is actually in high gear during these teenage years. They are key phases of neuronal development that occur before the brain is fully ready to deal with the challenges of the adult world, and these take place specifically in the prefrontal cortex. These include a pruning, whereby neurons that are not being used efficiently get removed, and at the same time, those neurons that are efficient in their communication with other neurons get more shielding, more myelination, and this allows for further efficiency and productivity. This is a time when the brain is being customized, and only with these steps completed are our brains really maximized for success.

Marijuana hijacks this development. When the prefrontal cortex is not fully developed, it is more vulnerable to the neurotoxic effects of marijuana than in adulthood. This is why the age of onset of marijuana use is so critical. These developmental stages are essential, but marijuana exposure gets in the way. Without the cognitive input from a well-developed prefrontal cortex, a teen has to rely on other brain regions for cognition. The limbic system and the more posterior brain regions that are not as evolutionarily developed are what must be relied upon to make decisions and provide judgment. What this means is that our emotional brain is running the show rather than enlisting the help of the thinking brain, or the prefrontal cortex.

Executive functioning is required. To be prosperous in the world without a well-developed prefrontal cortex—something that can happen when it gets hijacked by marijuana—it will be a struggle, and this struggle can be avoided by focusing on brain health.

It's really important, I think, to get these results to the teens and to the parents. My work is published in scientific journals, and who reads those?

We need to educate and inform people that marijuana is not as innocuous as it's being deemed to be, for youth in particular, and that the adolescent developing brain is very vulnerable to the adverse effects of marijuana.

I don't think we can allow the misconceptions of the impact of marijuana on youth to continue. We really do need to have an increased awareness of the neurophysiological effects of marijuana on youth, and I think that's really crucial.

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

From the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse, we have Mr. Perron and Ms. Porath-Waller.

9 a.m.

Michel Perron Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse

Good morning, Mr. Chair, and members of the committee.

As indicated, my name is Michel Perron. I am the chief executive officer of the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse, CCSA. I'm also joined by Dr. Amy Porath-Waller, senior research and policy analyst. Her primary research focus is on the health effects of cannabis.

To assist members with this important study on its harms, I'll be speaking about some issues related to cannabis, which could also interchangeably be referred to as marijuana. Specifically, I will touch on rates of use in Canada and awareness, health risks associated with use based on the latest research, and what we at CCSA can propose as a way forward.

In terms of rates of use, one in ten Canadians reported using cannabis in 2012, making it the most commonly used illicit substance. In terms of chronic use, we know that over a quarter of Canadians, youth and adults, who reported using cannabis in the past three months are daily users.

Canada's youth are the highest users of cannabis when compared to students in other developed countries. Although overall rates of use have been declining since 2008, youth still use cannabis at rates that are about 2.5 times higher than that of adults.

It's clear that young people use cannabis, but this vulnerable group mistakenly believes that it's a benign substance. When I use “vulnerable” here, I'm referring to their stage of brain development, as Dr. Smith just mentioned.

It should also be stated that cannabis is not a homogenous substance. It can, and does, have varying levels of THC, the psychoactive ingredient, and at levels quite different from what we've seen, even just recent years ago.

We also know that the earlier someone starts to use, the more likely they are to use more frequently, and increase their risk of dependence.

In order to get a better idea of what youth think about cannabis, CCSA conducted research with young Canadians across the country. I have copies of this report available for you today.

The results show that Canadian youth are very confused about cannabis. In the study, some said cannabis helps to improve their focus at school and that the drug can even prevent or cure cancer. Youth were also uncertain as to whether cannabis improves or impairs driving performance, and felt that smoking and driving was not as dangerous as drinking and driving. Moreover, youth often talked about how cannabis is natural, so they don't really think of it as a drug.

I'd like to now turn your attention to research that has been conducted on the health risks of cannabis use.

It's important to remember that some of this research is quite conclusive, as we heard from Dr. Smith just now. Other areas show mixed results, and in some areas the research is just very much beginning.

I'll organize my remarks around these three areas: the acute, or immediate, harms; short-term harms; and long-term harms.

In terms of acute harms, immediately upon using cannabis, research is clear that there are negative impacts on cognitive functioning. Specifically, it impairs concentration and decision-making, reaction time, memory, and executive functioning. All of these abilities are required to safely operate a vehicle or to pay attention in school, or go to work. There's also consistent evidence that cannabis use impacts the ability to drive safely and increases the risk of collision, and that this risk significantly increases when cannabis is combined with alcohol.

In terms of short-term harms, they can affect a person up to a month after using. Research consistently shows that cognitive deficits, which were referred to earlier, that are present during the acute phase can persist after that time. This means a negative impact on a person's ability to think, learn, and remember. Emerging research indicates that heavy chronic use may also lower a person's IQ.

In addition, there is consistent evidence that frequent use of cannabis is associated with an increased risk of experiencing mental health issues, such as psychotic episodes or schizophrenia. That risk increases when an individual has a family history of the disorder. Evidence is more mixed with respect to linkages between cannabis use, depression, and anxiety.

Marijuana can also be harmful to health and respiratory functions. Its smoke contains toxic substances similar to those in tobacco smoke, which means that inhaling this smoke can expose the lungs and airways to respiratory problems.

Cannabis smoke is also unfiltered, and users take larger, deeper puffs, thereby keeping the smoke in the lungs longer.

I should note, however, that the long-term effects of smoking cannabis on respiratory health, such as lung cancer, are less clear, and there is a need for additional research on this subject.

I know that the committee is also interested in the addictive properties of cannabis. Clinical research indicates that cannabis can lead to dependence. Studies have shown that cannabis triggers the brain's reward centre in both animals and humans. Clinical studies on heavy users, defined as weekly, also demonstrated withdrawal symptoms when use was discontinued, including around anxiety, physical tension, and disturbed sleep patterns.

According to recent data from the 2012 Canadian community health survey, over 5% of young Canadians age 15 to 24 met the criteria for cannabis abuse or dependence. This represents about a quarter of a million young Canadians. That is a significant number which I think we need to pause and consider as we go forward. For adults age 25 to 64, this number was less than 1%.

I will turn now to the effects on the developing brain.

To reinforce some of the messages we've heard, it's clear that as a society we should be concerned about whether and how much our young people are using cannabis. Adolescence is a time of rapid development that helps set the stage for later success in life. Conversely, it can also set the stage for experiencing challenges in adulthood. There is growing evidence that early and frequent use of cannabis can alter structural aspects of the developing brain, including those areas of the brain that are responsible for memory, decision-making, executive functioning, and motor coordination.

To repeat, those who use most often are at greater risk than adults. This can have significant consequences on a young person's life trajectory when their main role in life when they're young is to learn and grow.

Available data show that everything we can do to prevent, reduce or delay drug consumption will help reduce the harm to individuals and society, as well as reduce health care expenses.

In terms of a way forward, it's clear that cannabis is not a benign substance. The early or more frequent the use, the greater the potential for both acute and long-term harm. This points to the need for a comprehensive, multi-faceted approach to raise public awareness of the health effects of cannabis in order to reduce its use.

In this regard, through our health promotion and drug prevention strategy for Canada's youth, CCSA is working with partners to promote evidence-informed practices and advance knowledge about substance abuse prevention, including the prevention of cannabis use.

We have already done a great deal of work in this regard with the development of Canadian standards for substance abuse prevention for schools, families, and communities. We know that prevention works, but not just any kind of prevention. The standards help those who work in the field deliver quality services.

We're also working with a scientific advisory committee to clarify what we know and what we don't know about the effects of cannabis use on the developing brain. As well, we are looking at how to build resilience in youth in partnership with the sport and recreation communities.

Sound evidence-based prevention programs and awareness-building initiatives are key components of a continuum of services and support that include health promotion, early intervention, and treatment. I would caution the committee that these should not be taken in isolation. Substance abuse is a problem too complex to be addressed by any one approach or by any one group, and it's very much a concerted, collective approach around these areas that would make some true success and achieve a collective impact.

Mr. Chair, the topic of cannabis and its place in Canadian society will certainly occupy the public discourse for the near future. Perhaps that's an opportunity for us to correct some of the misunderstandings around the substance. It is, however, a complex issue with far-reaching implications on our collective health and safety, and it impacts our future when our young people are experimenting with a substance that affects their development. We've spent a lot of time trying to ensure that our youth are best equipped at school and in their jobs to be successful members of society in a knowledge-based economy to have a productive nation. This is clearly an issue that impacts that ability in the long-term way forward.

Like you, the CCSA is committed to reducing and preventing the harms associated with cannabis by carefully studying the evidence and by conducting additional research, as needed.

We welcome an ongoing dialogue similar to the discussion we're having today.

I would like to thank the committee for its interest in this issue of vital importance to the health of Canadians.

I would be happy to take any questions.

Thank you.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Thank you very much.

Our final presentation this morning will be a video conference from Dr. Kevin Sabet, of Smart Approaches to Marijuana. Go ahead, sir, for 10 minutes, or thereabouts.

9:10 a.m.

Dr. Kevin Sabet Executive Director, Smart Approaches to Marijuana

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and members of the committee, for inviting me to speak in front of you today, with the wonders of modern technology. I very much appreciate it.

I'm here wearing a few different hats. I am the co-founder, along with Congressman Patrick Kennedy, of Smart Approaches to Marijuana. As many of you know, we recently helped launch the Canadian affiliate of that organization, with Dr. Harold Kalant, the professor who I think was in front of you last week. We look forward to continued dialogue with the Canadian government. I also am an assistant professor at the University of Florida, college of medicine, department of psychiatry.

I left some visuals and slides with members of the committee today. I won't follow them verbatim during my testimony, but I think they serve as good reference points, especially since I wasn't able to join you in person.

I'm honoured to serve here, in front of the committee, with both Dr. Smith and Mr. Perron, who have both shown extraordinary leadership on this. CCSA especially has been a wonderful international partner and representative of Canada to many NGO fora around the world, and I appreciate their continued work. I appreciate Dr. Smith's work on the neuroscience side.

I think what we just heard should be taken into a broader context. I would say that the biggest challenge facing both Canada and the United States right now on this issue is that there is a huge divide between the scientific understanding of the harms of cannabis and the public's misunderstanding. So, if there could be something the committee might want to focus on, it would be to try to bridge that divide.

As you can see, I wrote a book called Reefer Sanity: Seven Great Myths About Marijuana that covers much of this. I've been in this field for almost 20 years, and recently served as the senior adviser in the Obama administration for drug policy. After I left my post, I wrote and reflected on my experiences and also on the science of cannabis. That's what my book is about.

Really, the first myth I present to you is this idea that many people believe, which is that marijuana is harmless and non-addictive. Clearly, from what we've just heard, and again what the science says, that's not the case.

To put it in context, we know that one out of every six 16-year-olds who ever try marijuana even once will at some point become addicted to the drug in their life. Clearly, marijuana addiction does not manifest itself the way heroin or cocaine addiction does, but it certainly isn't something that is benign.

As we heard from Dr. Smith, the adolescent brain is essentially under construction up until age 28 or 30. It's clearly a bigger risk when kids start, or when you start earlier in life. That makes sense, if you think about, say, when you want to learn a second language or how to ride bike or swim, you learn those things when you're younger. Your brain can pick those things up, which is a good thing. Unfortunately, on the drug side, it's a bad thing. It means that early use and exposure to substances has the ability to interfere with normal brain processing.

The next slide, slide 5, the one with the bubbles, on the dependence on or abuse of specific illicit drugs.... This is obviously U.S. data, but I think it's important to look at the fact that marijuana is the number one reason kids are in treatment today, more than alcohol and all drugs combined. Also, it's the number two reason for adults, after alcohol.

Slides 6 and 7 are on potency. Although slide 7 comes from American data, the data from Canada is very similar. In speaking to Dr. Kalant and looking at this before coming to you today, we know that 30 or 40 years ago, marijuana potency was hovering between 1% and 2%. Today, the average is between 10% and 11%. Of course, in certain regions, especially on the west coast of Canada and the east coast, we know that indoor-grown marijuana can produce upwards of 30% THC. That is a very different level from someone who might have tried cannabis even 10 or 20 years ago. I think this is part of the reason there is such a divide. Parents today, many of whom might have tried cannabis, tried it when the potency was much weaker so their understanding and experience of it is very different from that of kids today.

Mr. Perron spoke about mental illness. I won't dwell on that, other than to say that this is an area of research we're focusing on, given the increase in mental illness in both our countries. Harmful effects on the lungs, I think, was also stated.

Turning to slide 11, and Dr. Smith briefly referred to this when she talked about New Zealand, when we look at the IQ issues, I think that is really something we would want to focus on. One of the most robust studies ever conducted on people using cannabis over a 30-plus-year lifespan—these are longitudinal studies—essentially found that people who had used cannabis heavily as adolescents, even if they had stopped in adulthood, by age 38 had a significant risk for a six-to-eight point reduction in IQ. That was even after controlling for alcohol and other substances. Clearly, more research needs to be done, but when we start looking at school dropout rates, when we start looking at vulnerable populations, clearly six to eight points is significant, especially for those vulnerable populations who are already having a difficult time at school for various reasons.

Slides 12 and 13 I'm not going to dwell on too long, this idea of whether marijuana is medicine. I think it's important to talk about this here, especially in the Canadian context. We do know that cannabis has medical properties. We know that cannabis has over 500 components. We're learning about all of them every day, but we know that we don't need to smoke or eat crude cannabis to get those medical properties. Similarly, we don't smoke opium to derive the benefits of morphine. There needs to be a very clear distinction between crude cannabis that's smoked by young people, and the components of cannabis that might be used for something like neuropathic pain relief or multiple sclerosis relief.

Slide 14—and I commend Canada for moving so quickly on this, much quicker than its neighbour to the south—looks at cannabis-derived medicines that do not have potential for abuse and really are not being diverted to kids. One of those medicines, nabiximols—Sativex is the trade name—is in the process of being studied in the U.S. but is essentially already approved in Canada. It's administered via an oral mouth spray for spasticity due to multiple sclerosis and also neuropathic cancer pain.

What's interesting about that is that it's a liquid extract, so it's the whole plant, but it's mainly comprised of THC and CBD. CBD is important because it does not get you high. CBD is a component of marijuana, like THC, but because it binds to receptors differently—there's actually controversy about that—it does not get you high, it does not produce psychoactivity. The same manufacturers are also looking at other drugs that could be used for epilepsy, like Epidiolex.

This is an ever-evolving area, as slide 15 talks about. Every week there seems to be studies coming out. A couple of recent studies in the last week are interesting for the committee to note, I think.

One is a peer-reviewed research finding that people who had used cannabis and then went on to cocaine had a much greater severity of their cocaine dependence than those who never tried cannabis and jumped straight to cocaine. Now, we have to figure out why that's the case, and this is early research, but it's very interesting when we want to look at the link between cannabis and other drugs.

I'll skip the second bullet.

The third bullet essentially is a research finding from two weeks ago that made a lot of headlines. It found that casual users of cannabis, not heavy users, had structural changes in their brain that had really only previously been documented in animal studies. It was a small sample of about 20 people, but it was interesting to look at the parts of the brain that were affected, even among casual users. This is the first time research has found this in human studies versus animal studies. This is clearly an area we need to keep an eye on.

I'm going to skip a couple of the other slides.

I'll go to slide 17. With the couple of minutes remaining that I hope I have—and I know we're looking only at health harms here—we do need to look at the role of marketing and normalization in exacerbating health harms. We've known from the history of tobacco in both of our countries about, really, the history of 100 years of deceit and misinformation by an industry whose goal was to increase addiction.

Remember, industries only want to increase addiction. That's how they increase their profit. What I worry about—well, I'm witnessing what's going on in the United States, the elephant in the room being Colorado and Washington—is this idea of big corporations popping up.

I'll just leave some visuals with you. I won't go into a lot of detail here.

Essentially we are in the midst of creating the next tobacco industry of our time here in the U.S. as we move down this path of legalization. For example, in slide 19 you can see the edibles that are used, the sodas. It's important for a committee who's looking at health harms to understand that actually a lot of kids are not just smoking a joint in terms of that's the way they're getting marijuana. They are eating it in different forms. They are drinking it in different forms. They are vaporizing it, and using m-cigarettes. I think the huge unexplored topic on this issue is the role of vapours, vaporization, e-cigarettes, and what we call m-cigarettes right now. We already know that Philip Morris International has its hand in creating the most efficient marijuana vaporizer. It can also be used for tobacco, so you can basically hide both of them.

Slide 21 I think you also need to look at. This is the issue of butane hash oil extraction. This is the idea that you can get close to 100% THC by combusting marijuana through a butane process and inhaling it. If you were to tell somebody 10 years ago that they could get 100% THC, you would be laughed out of any scientific room or conference. It didn't exist: you can't have that much THC in a marijuana joint. But now, due to modern technology, you certainly can have concentrates approaching 100%.

This is a huge public health concern that I would urge the committee to look at. We've now seen mass commercialization through Groupon, and really the intersection of Wall Street and marijuana.

With that, I'll stop talking about commercialization.

The final point I want to make is that if you look at Colorado and look at the developments, as a lot of people are, it's important to understand that Colorado has had de facto legalization for about five or six years through the purveyance of medical stores that have essentially sold marijuana to anybody, really, who reported any kind of pain at all. Research is now just coming out. I've left you with some peer-reviewed sources. I won't dwell on all of the issues and problems that have been looked at—I don't have the time—but essentially it has not looked good in Colorado in the last five years since they really went down this path of legalization.

There's clearly a lot more to talk about, but I will stop there and yield the floor back to the committee.

Thank you for having me.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Thank you very much to all our guests. Those were great presentations.

First up is the NDP. Mr. Morin and Ms. Laverdière will start the questions.

Dr. Sabet, I can assure you that these two are Canadiens fans, Habs fans, and you won't get any questions about the Boston Bruins, okay?

9:20 a.m.

Executive Director, Smart Approaches to Marijuana

Dr. Kevin Sabet

Don't worry, I'm not a Bruins fan. My wife is from Vancouver.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb

Okay.

You have seven minutes.

9:20 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank all of our witnesses for their presentations today.

My first question is for Dr. Smith, who mentioned significant differences a number of times.

For example, prenatal exposure to marijuana would have a significant difference with respect to a child's cognitive abilities. There are also significant differences in brain activity among those who consume it and those who do not.

I'd like you to clarify these significant differences. Is it a 2%, 20%, 40% difference? Could you give me more specific figures?

9:25 a.m.

Associate Professor, University of Ottawa

Dr. Andra Smith

Are you asking for the percentage of women who prenatally were using marijuana?

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

No. You spoke of a significant difference, for example, significant difference in brain activity. What do you mean? You talked about a significant difference. Could you spell it out? Is it a 2% difference, a 20% difference? Could you give us more detail on what you call a significant difference, please?

9:25 a.m.

Associate Professor, University of Ottawa

Dr. Andra Smith

When we do our brain imaging, typically we are doing group comparisons, or we even do a multiple regression, where we're looking at the correlation. When I say “significant”, I mean at a probability value of 0.05. With our multiple regression results, we're seeing that with more prenatal exposure or with more teenage use, you get significantly more brain activity.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

When you say that you see significantly more brain activity, that's where you say you have a probability value of 0.05?

9:25 a.m.

Associate Professor, University of Ottawa

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Okay, which is not.... Well, that's noted.

9:25 a.m.

Associate Professor, University of Ottawa

Dr. Andra Smith

It perhaps is a little different in the neuroimaging world. It's hard to really give you an actual per cent.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Yes, but I think the probability value speaks for itself. Thank you.

I have a similar question for Dr. Sabet.

You talked about a significant risk for a six- to eight-point reduction in IQ. Could you tell us more about that? What do you mean by “significant risk”?

9:25 a.m.

Executive Director, Smart Approaches to Marijuana

Dr. Kevin Sabet

Sure. I'm more than happy to respond. Thank you, Madam, for the question.

Essentially, this study was looking at over 1,000 people born in the years 1971 and 1972 in the fourth largest city in New Zealand, Dunedin. It was an extraordinary study. I don't want to say that it was unprecedented, but it's a rare study. That you can enrol every single person born in this one large city in two years in a research project that would span their lifetimes is fascinating.

Essentially, researchers check in with them every five to ten years on many different issues and levels, on all sorts of things. This time when they checked in on them.... They had looked at their cannabis use when they were younger through surveys, but they also made sure that this was consistent over time, so it was accurate.

This time, for those people who had used cannabis three to four times a week for three to four years, I believe—and I will get you the exact study to make sure the numbers are correct, as this is off the top of my head—even if those people had stopped using cannabis in early adulthood, by the time they were 38 years old, which was the last time they were checked on, about four years or so ago, it was shown that, controlling for alcohol—even alcohol did not show this—controlling for socio-economic background and for education, there was a significant risk, I believe at the 0.01 level, if you want to get specific about the regression—which is important—of basically six to eight points, depending on a few different factors, whether it was six or eight, but the bottom was six points and the top was eight points in terms of the range, shown of a reduction in IQ that could not be explained by education, parental involvement, alcohol use, and other drug use. In other words, they had controlled for this.

This was such an extraordinary finding that it was understandably challenged by some people. A researcher in Norway challenged them to go back and redo their calculations based on a different formula and using different things. They went back, redid it, and found the exact same results. These are findings that are certainly talked about in scientific spheres still, and there's certainly follow-up to do, but it confirms what we know about school dropouts, what we know about attention span, and what we know about other things related to education.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Dany Morin NDP Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

Thank you.

Most of my questions are for Dr. Smith.

My colleague already asked you some questions about the study you did on pregnant women and young children. My questions are about the second study you mentioned on the use of marijuana among young adults.

Was it a longitudinal study?

9:30 a.m.

Associate Professor, University of Ottawa

Dr. Andra Smith

It's a longitudinal study.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Dany Morin NDP Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC

What was the time span?

9:30 a.m.

Associate Professor, University of Ottawa

Dr. Andra Smith

These children were followed up since they were born, every two or three years. Then the study that I did was when they were 18 to 21.