Evidence of meeting #29 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was use.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Officer in Charge, Policy and Compliance, National Criminal Operations, Contract and Aboriginal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Specifically, and I'm going to refer to my notes here, central nervous system depressants and cannabis were the most common. Marijuana was the most common with the age group 16 to 24.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
Thank you.
With drunk drivers you have a reliable test, a breathalyzer test, that allows you to get convictions, a very high rate of conviction, because it's proven to be accurate.
There's no such test currently for marijuana. Is that right? Doesn't that account for your statement that driving while impaired on marijuana is probably much higher than the 2% reported? Isn't that the reason, because there's no reliable test and there's no way to prove it?
Officer in Charge, Policy and Compliance, National Criminal Operations, Contract and Aboriginal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
It's certainly part of it. Drug-impaired driving is a complicated investigation and it certainly involves more steps and different tools than the alcohol-impaired driving investigations. When I mentioned the 2% that they said were impaired, I'm speaking generally of drug-impaired driving, not just cannabis.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
Even at the roadside, if a police officer stops a car, they're trained to sniff for the smell of alcohol on someone's breath. They can see if their eyes are red and maybe their speech is slurred. It's not so easy with marijuana. Isn't that correct?
Officer in Charge, Policy and Compliance, National Criminal Operations, Contract and Aboriginal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That's correct. One of the programs we offer is the drug recognition expert program. Mr. Smith is an instructor with that program. If it's okay with you, sir, I'll just ask him to give a brief....
Darcy Smith General Manager, National Forensic Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The drug recognition expert program is designed because of the fact that we do not have roadside testing devices or the black boxes that everyone is looking for when we deal with other drugs. When an evaluator goes through the evaluation process with a subject under the influence of a drug such as cannabis, the accuracy is quite good.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
That's once they've been arrested and brought into the station.
General Manager, National Forensic Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
They've generally been arrested at that point because there's the suspicion that there are drugs in the body. An evaluation is then demanded, and then they're brought in to have the evaluation done.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
That would have to be at a pretty high level, because at the roadside, if somebody's just had half a joint or one joint, it's pretty hard to tell if they've been smoking marijuana. Isn't that correct?
General Manager, National Forensic Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That depends on what brought them to the attention of the officer in the first place.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
We've had the myth debunked that our regulatory system for alcohol is a wonderful success and if we just decriminalize marijuana, tax it and regulate it, everything will be fine. A recent CAMH study said that 54.9% of students in Ontario between grades 7 and 12 drink alcohol illegally on occasion. We know that binge drinking is a particular problem. So we know that regulation is a failure.
I served on the Alcohol and Gaming Commission for three years. I did over 100 hearings. At that time, there was $500 million of illegal alcohol sold in booze cans, after hours clubs, etc. In Ontario, although Ontario has one of the best regulatory regimes apparently in North America, there was still $500 million in bootleg booze. I haven't been able to get any current figures.
Would you please comment, Officer Taplin, on the naive assumption that the regulation of alcohol prevents it from getting into the hands of our youth and what that would mean for marijuana getting into the hands of our youth if we just legalized marijuana and regulated it?
Officer in Charge, Policy and Compliance, National Criminal Operations, Contract and Aboriginal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I don't have a specific comment on that.
Conservative
General Manager, National Forensic Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Our job is to enforce the legislation in place.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
Okay. Officer Rusk, how do minors get alcohol? Where do they get it?
Public Engagement Officer, Federal Policing Public Engagement Program , Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That's a very broad question. As mentioned, if it's a minor, then it's going to be by illegal means. I know in every province either 18 or 19 is the age to be able to purchase, let alone consume.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
I can tell you where they get it. We were all teenagers. They get it from older friends or siblings. They steal it from their parents' house. If marijuana were legalized and older siblings and older friends could buy it, that's where they would get marijuana. Is that not safe to say?
Public Engagement Officer, Federal Policing Public Engagement Program , Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That could definitely be some of those avenues, yes.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
You're an investigator. Where would you look? Doesn't that make sense?
Public Engagement Officer, Federal Policing Public Engagement Program , Royal Canadian Mounted Police
I'm not arguing with you.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
Okay, thank you.
Mr. Wilks would like to take a bit of my time, Chair, please.
Conservative
David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thank you very much.
Thanks, gentlemen, for being here today.
Mr. Smith, has there been a determination through the forensic labs with regard to THC in the body and a level that will be required for impairment? Right now, if forming an opinion, a police officer must ask for a blood sample. That's the only way to do it for marijuana.
General Manager, National Forensic Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
The challenge with cannabis or with THC in trying to determine an impairment level is the unique pharmacokinetics that cannabis shows in a person's body. It takes time for marijuana to be eliminated from the body. Even after they are no longer being impaired by the marijuana, they will still have measurable marijuana in their blood, or blood THC level in their system.
Conservative
David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
What you're saying is that cannabis, marijuana, or THC remains in the system, filtrated through fat tissue, for substantially more time than alcohol does.
General Manager, National Forensic Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
That is correct.