Health Committee on May 27th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome.

We're in our final meeting of our study on the health risks of marijuana.

We have two different panels this morning: three members of the RCMP and then later we have some experts in the field. We have from 8:45 to 9:25. so I think we should get right into it.

You have 10 minutes to present and then we'll follow up with our rounds of questions and answers.

[Insp Jamie Taplin, Officer in Charge, Policy and Compliance, National Criminal Operations, Contract and Aboriginal Policing, Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Thank you for the opportunity to talk about the work the RCMP is doing to combat drug-impaired driving and the impact that cannabis has on law enforcement.

I am Inspector Jamie Taplin, and I work in the operational policy unit of the contract policing business line. Two areas that are within my responsibility are the drug recognition expert program and the RCMP impaired driving strategy.

Joining me today is Mr. Darcy Smith. Mr. Smith is an alcohol and drug specialist from the RCMP forensic labs. He is also an instructor for the drug recognition expert program. He's currently leading a research study to determine if there are roadside screening devices that will work with the most common drugs that impair driving to see if these devices will be suitable for use in Canada.

From RCMP federal services is Sergeant Dustin Rusk. He's a federal policing public engagement officer. I'll be referring to that as the FPPE. The aim of his program is to be proactive with an emphasis on prevention within the pre-criminal scope of the criminal spectrum. FPPE seeks to identify options and sustainable solutions and highlight gaps where existing public community or private resources and policies are not aligned, or are not sufficient to provide support.

Today, I'm going to start by talking a little about impaired driving more broadly. I'm going to focus on drug-impaired driving, and then I'll talk a little about what federal policing is doing, and the impact that cannabis has on law enforcement overall. We'll talk about some of the initiatives the RCMP is working on to combat drug-impaired driving, and overall drug enforcement and prevention.

Although the RCMP has always enforced Canadian impaired driving laws, the Commissioner of the RCMP recently requested the development of a national strategy to combat impaired driving and to help change public attitudes about impaired driving. Impaired driving devastates families and communities, resulting in high cost to victims, offenders, communities, and governments. Our strategy will focus on enforcement activities, but also on public awareness, with the aim to address issues with drug-impaired driving, which is a growing concern around the world and certainly in Canada.

One of the most important factors in deterring impaired driving and changing the attitudes of those people who choose to drive while impaired is to have them understand the potentially devastating consequences that their actions may have on themselves and others, and also to let them know that there is some risk in being caught. Building on the great work already under way in the provinces through engaging our partners in the non-profit sector, other law enforcement agencies, and other government organizations invested in road safety, the RCMP hopes to encourage people to choose not to drive while impaired. We hope to encourage citizens to report impaired drivers. We would like to increase the likelihood that impaired drivers will be apprehended before they can cause further harm in Canadian communities.

Let us look at statistics, and I'll speak about Canadian statistics, not just the RCMP's. They're from the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics. In 2012, there were 84,483 criminal impaired driving incidents that were by way of charge. While the large majority is alcohol-impaired driving, about 2% are reported to be by drug impairment. Interestingly, we're learning that the most recent roadside surveys and academic studies that are being done and published are suggesting that drug-impaired driving is quite a bit higher than the 2% that our statistics show.

For example, I refer to a 2011 report, “Drug Use by Fatally Injured Drivers in Canada (2000-2008)”. The report is from the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse. They reviewed the accidents of over 17,000 drivers who were fatally injured. That study indicates that drugs that can cause driver impairment were found in approximately one-third of all fatally injured drivers. This is important to us, because that 33%, roughly, is almost at the same level that alcohol was found in fatally injured drivers.

One of the other things that was important is when drugs were found, the most common were central nervous system depressants and also cannabis.

The age group the study identifies most at risk was young men age 16 to 24, and the drug of choice for them was cannabis.

In another study referring to a 2008 roadside survey with British Columbia drivers, over 10% of the drivers tested positive for drugs, with cocaine and cannabis being the most common drugs detected. In this survey, 10% were found to be using drugs; 8% of drivers had been drinking; about 15% tested positive for both alcohol and drugs.

There are other surveys out there that indicate, for example, that 17% of Canadian drivers report having driven within two hours of using a potentially impairing drug.

What's important here is most people know that a person's ability to drive a motor vehicle is affected by alcohol use, but we have a study by the CCMTA, the Canadian Council of Motor Transport Administrators, with what I call rather alarming news. According to their study, 26% do not believe a driver can be charged while impaired by cannabis.

The RCMP is concerned about cannabis use, especially by young Canadians when it comes to driving. I have teenagers myself. I listen to their conservations. I talk to my son and his friends. It seems everybody knows that alcohol-impaired driving is bad. Don't drink and drive. The message has been out there for a long time. But the issue with drug-impaired driving is not as well understood. Anecdotally, I hear that teenagers don't feel you can be stoned and get an impaired driving charge.

I'm going to give you a couple more statistics about a survey that was done with Ontario students, grades 7 to 12, in 2011. They reported that cannabis was the most common illicit drug used by high school students; 22% reported using it over the last year. The same report notes that cannabis use increases with every grade level, starting at 7 and going to 12. They note that 12% of drivers in grades 10 to 12, with a G class licence, report driving after cannabis use. Based on the size of the survey, that 12% represents some 38,000 drivers.

On a positive note, that same survey mentions our efforts to educate youth are having some impact because the number of licensed students who drive after using cannabis or who get in the vehicle as a passenger with a driver who has been using cannabis or alcohol has gone down.

Part of what we're doing with the impaired driving strategy in the RCMP is we're trying to create better internal and external messaging, working closely with RCMP divisions, partner agencies, and special interest groups to discourage impaired driving through public education and awareness. We're trying to engage youth in discussions on drug- and alcohol-impaired driving. We're coordinating national enforcement days against impaired driving, supporting the identification and purchase of new equipment to support alcohol- and drug-impaired driving investigations, and to make sure our training standards for using this equipment are up to date, along with the training for our standardized field sobriety testing, and also the drug recognition expert training.

I mentioned very briefly about Mr. Smith's role with our oral-fluid testing devices. The RCMP is working on a project with the Canadian Society of Forensic Science's drugs and driving committee. Also, there's funding from the Ontario Ministry of Transportation. We're trying to determine if there are roadside point-of-contact oral-fluid testing devices that can test for the most common drugs that contribute to impaired driving in Canada. This, of course, would include cannabis. We want to determine if these devices can be used in Canada. The device would be similar to an approved screening device for alcohol, and would aid in the apprehension of drug-impaired drivers.

On the federal policing side, it's well known that cultivation, distribution, and exportation of marijuana is a significant source of revenue for Canadian organized criminal groups, and it provides a financial base for other organized crime activities as well as individual criminals.

The RCMP, in cooperation with its partners, continues to be an active participant in the prevention and enforcement pillars of the national anti-drug strategy, NADS, which was launched by the Government of Canada in 2007.

NADS has a clear focus on illicit drugs, with a particular emphasis on youth. Its goal is to contribute to safer and healthier communities through coordinated efforts to prevent use, treat dependency, and reduce production and distribution of illicit drugs, including marijuana. It encompasses three action plans: prevention, treatment, and enforcement.

The RCMP is also doing outreach and community engagement in relation to illegal marijuana use. The FPPE is involved in a range of initiatives aimed at raising awareness of illicit drugs and their negative consequences. For example, during the 2012 fiscal year, the RCMP gave over 3,000 awareness presentations for such programs as D.A.R.E., drug abuse resistance education; the aboriginal shield program; racing against drugs; kids and drugs; and drug-endangered children. These initiatives are youth-centric and encompass the surrounding community.

Periodic updates are undertaken to ensure accurate drug information and to ensure that the program content is geographically and culturally specific and appropriate. Each initiative includes extensive information on the harms and risks related to substance abuse, use, and movement. Marijuana, of course, is included in that.

In relation to marijuana enforcement, the RCMP at both the local and federal levels continues to be concerned with the presence of marijuana grow operations in Canada. The RCMP established a marijuana grow initiative in September 2011 in order to better tackle marijuana grow operations. This initiative is based on three components—awareness, deterrence, and enforcement—and involves collaboration among government agencies, community groups, businesses, and community members. This past year saw many successful federal enforcement activities in relation to marijuana grow operations and organized criminal groups.

That concludes my opening remarks. Sergeant Rusk, Mr. Smith, and I would be happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Thank you very much for the presentation.

Our first round goes to Ms. Davies.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Actually, we'll go to Mr. Rafferty. He's sharing his time with me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Very good. Thank you.

Go ahead, sir, and welcome.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all three witnesses for being here.

It's a pleasure to be at the health committee. I haven't had the opportunity to sit on this committee in this Parliament.

I have two questions, and then Libby will ask the next questions.

You talked about the technology. I'm just curious. When you think about the hardware and the software, and you think about officer training, is there any idea of what that cost would be, certainly in the jurisdictions that you're present in?

[Insp Jamie Taplin]

Unfortunately, I can't answer that. Obviously there is a cost, but I don't have those numbers with me today. Sorry.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

That leads to my second question, which is about aboriginal policing, and in particular first nations policing. We've heard in other committees, public safety in particular, but other committees as well, that aboriginal policing in Canada is woefully underfunded, particularly first nations policing. My experience in northern Ontario with the Nishnawbe-Aski Nation police service is really a sad tale of underfunding. I'm assuming that most of your first nations policing is in B.C. and Alberta, in that area, so maybe you could find a comparison there.

Given the economic situation for first nations policing across Canada, how will these initiatives fit in with that?

[Insp Jamie Taplin]

There are initiatives that are specific to aboriginal youth, such as the aboriginal shield program. Dustin, I'm sure, would be happy to tell you more about that program.

I would say that in aboriginal communities, as in all of our other communities, resources are placed where they need to be to get our work accomplished, and certainly that's one of them. I don't have numbers or anything like that with me today, but as part of the many programs we offer.... Certainly there are many, and I would suggest that most of them could also be implemented in aboriginal communities.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Certainly feel free to get back to us with any additional information.

[Insp Jamie Taplin]

Is there anything specific you'd like to mention?

[Sgt Dustin Rusk, Public Engagement Officer, Federal Policing Public Engagement Program , Royal Canadian Mounted Police]

Yes, the aboriginal shield program. The wonderful thing about that program is that it's community specific and appropriate to deal with whatever the issues are in that community. The community takes ownership and is a driving partner towards dealing with whatever the issues are with regard to drugs, substance abuse, and violence within that community, and mobilize together. The police help support the community to find out what the solutions are to their challenges.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you.

Libby.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much to the witnesses for coming today.

I'd like to pick up on a couple of things you said, but I have a general question first.

As enforcers of the law, and I guess you do your own analysis of what's going on in terms of laws and enforcement, at what point does the RCMP come to the conclusion that prohibition when it comes to marijuana has really failed?

I'm thinking that because we've seen recently that the Canadian chiefs of police.... Previously they advocated for decriminalization. I think that was the association of police, but the police chiefs have advocated more for a ticketing kind of system.

I'm curious as to what the tipping point is in the law as we know it today. It has basically been an abject failure, whether it's economically or from a law enforcement point of view. It has really not acted as a deterrent in terms of drug use. It's much better to focus on education, prevention, treatment, and harm reduction.

I wonder if you could comment on that, that at this point even the police seem to be saying that we're better to look at a ticketing regime.

[Insp Jamie Taplin]

I'll defer to my colleague in federal policing here to answer that question.

[Sgt Dustin Rusk]

First of all, I work in federal policing public engagement. One of the main focuses that we have is to look at prevention, especially compared to the medical industry. Prevention is worth so much more than doing any sort of reaction.

However, when dealing with anything that's in an act—and we have the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act—that falls under our mandate to enforce, we have to stick by that, whatever it is. Therefore, we do enforce the laws appropriately with regard to illicit substances, whatever they might be under all the different schedules.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Do you think it's important that we take a health approach? For example, I've always been quite interested in the fact that in school through the D.A.R.E. program, it's police officers who do the education and prevention. When we do sex education in the schools, we don't send in cops to do that. Why do we do it with drugs, when it's really a matter about health and awareness, what happens to our bodies, and so on, and how we make choices? It's really only because it's an illegal substance.

I question how effective that approach is. Would you agree that a health-based approach, particularly to young people based on prevention, education, and awareness is something that's very important? Maybe there's a role for police, but it's a health-related issue, and that's something that's really important to reinforce with young people.

[Sgt Dustin Rusk]

Looking at what this whole committee is about, and I can't speak for Health Canada, but there's definitely the involvement of a whole-of approach, where all should be involved in this, especially when we're looking at our youth.

After all, it goes back to one adage, that to have a healthy community, you also need to have a safe community where people, especially our young people, can explore their options and be well informed as to what they need to do to make their choices in life.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Do I have a little more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Twenty seconds.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Ben Lobb]

Thank you very much.

Next up is Mr. Young. You have seven minutes, sir.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

Officer Taplin, I want to ask you about some statements you made that actually even shocked me, and we've been listening about this for weeks.

Please tell me if I have this correct. You said that the Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse studied 17,000 driver deaths. Is that correct?

[Insp Jamie Taplin]

Yes.

[Terence Young, Conservative, Oakville, ON]

One-third of all drivers who died behind the wheel of their car had drugs in their blood, and that the most common one was marijuana. Is that correct?