Yes.
Evidence of meeting #39 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nicotine.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #39 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nicotine.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Manitoba Lung Association, Canadian Lung Association
12:40 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
You've mentioned that action must be taken. You've stated that there's a myriad of issues with e-cigarettes, and you've also submitted many recommendations. In the opinion of both of you, if you could give the federal government one recommendation, what would that one recommendation or first step be?
I'd appreciate hearing from both of you.
12:45 p.m.
Excutive Director, Canadian Public Health Association
Yes, certainly.
I'm going to err on the side of harm reduction and say either test or compel manufacturers to test their product as a smoking-cessation device, so that it can be regulated. If the evidence bears out that it is in fact a efficacious smoking-cessation device, it can be offered for sale as a smoking-cessation device.
I think that's the number one priority, because right now we simply don't know.
12:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Manitoba Lung Association, Canadian Lung Association
I agree. I don't think I could say it much better than that. We really don't know.
I think that's what makes it so complicated and so difficult, because we don't know. We need to know what's in them and they need to be regulated.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Fin Donnelly NDP New Westminster—Coquitlam, BC
Thanks very much.
For the remaining time I have left, I'll pass it over to my colleague, Marjolaine.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Marjolaine Boutin-Sweet NDP Hochelaga, QC
Thank you for being here.
Please allow me to summarize what I heard from the other two witnesses, as well as from you. I see two major trends. First of all, since there isn't enough information on the matter, we need more research. Second, we need regulation. Within that, I see two groups we should focus on: smokers and non-smokers.
I have a friend who smokes e-cigarettes and who quit smoking. I wouldn't say that it was because of e-cigarettes, but they seem to have been helpful for her. Since she is no longer smoking, her health is better. However, there are also non-smokers, particularly young people. I think we need to take action on several levels. There is labelling, for one thing, so that smokers know exactly what their lungs are absorbing. For non-smokers, there is a lot of advertising.
Do you think we should research the effects on health and the impact of advertising? Should we do studies on the effects of advertising or do we already have enough information on that?
Since I don't have a lot of time, I will ask a second question. Is there one or several countries that have particularly good regulations that you would recommend we consider?
October 30th, 2014 / 12:45 p.m.
Excutive Director, Canadian Public Health Association
To your first question, I apologize, but my French is horrible.
I do think we have sufficient research around advertising because of the links back to tobacco advertising. Tons of work has been done there. We know the effect of advertising on youth especially, but also on non-smokers.
I think the e-cigarette industry has hit the rewind button and we've taken things back 50 years as far as their approach in advertising is concerned, using celebrity spokespeople and making it look glamourous and sexy—but we know all f that. So if we have to focus somewhere, I would say focus on the products themselves, testing their efficacy as a cessation device, and then on the unintended negative consequences of their use as well.
12:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Manitoba Lung Association, Canadian Lung Association
I agree as well. We know enough about the advertising that was done for cigarettes. I think of ads like the Marlboro man and Virginia Slims and all those things that were done right. I think we know what this advertising is going to do, so I wouldn't waste money on that.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
12:50 p.m.
Excutive Director, Canadian Public Health Association
I don't have specific examples, but certainly the WHO report that was published back in June has some really good background material there, so it is available and we can make it available to the committee.
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Manitoba Lung Association, Canadian Lung Association
That's exactly what I would say as well. Thank you.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the Lung Association and the Canadian Public Health Association. We appreciate your being here.
We see a lot of concerns being expressed by many of our presenters here about renormalization of smoking. We've made such great strides in reducing smoking in Canada, and it looks like great peril seeing that reverse with a whole new generation of young people taking it up through e-cigarettes. I thank the Canadian Cancer Society for some of the vivid ads they made available to us, showing the pitching of advertising to children with visually distinctive packaging. I gather we're all on the same page with the witnesses before us. We've talking about banning sales to minors or controlling sales and controlling the sites of sales. There seemed to be a little bit of a difference of opinion on that one.
My big concern is the combustion of chemicals, and I don't know if the Canadian Lung Association can help us with this, and we don't have medical experts per se at the table today, I gather. So propylene glycol and vegetable glycol, as I understand it, are used in inhalers for asthmatics. The Lung Association would probably know that. But they're not combusted; they're just used as part of the propellant, and so on. When we burn these chemicals, I mean even simple ones like propylene glycol, what kind of compounds are we getting as a result of high temperature combustion?
Now with the flavours that might be an improvement for ingestion, what kind of breakdown complexities might there be when you heat them at high temperature into component molecules, and what kind of risk do those impose? I wonder whether the Lung Association can help with that. I note with some alarm from these studies in the EU that they make note of formaldehyde and other known carcinogens like acrolein found in equal amounts, as high in the smoke as in some cigarettes.
Also, although there are fewer particles than in cigarette smoke, they're also finer particles, and finer particles can be immensely more harmful than larger particles—or at least there are concerns that they may.
So I don't know whether you can help us with that.
I'll first of all go to the Lung Association. Are you aware of any information on the breakdown comments of these combustible products?
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Manitoba Lung Association, Canadian Lung Association
No, we're not aware at this point. I know there are some upcoming studies but we don't have enough statistics
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
I'm just a little concerned, after talking about the harm reduction side, that we might not be expressing enough concern on the risk side because we already have home grown.... It's on videos out there how to smoke your weed with your e-cigarette and how to take your dried marijuana, using propylene glycol.... It doesn't give off the stringent, pungent smell that cannabis outputs, so customers are able to smoke cannabis without anyone knowing. This article went on to say they could literally smoke under the teachers' and parents' noses, as if there was nothing in it but vapour, while they're getting up to 10 times the hit of marijuana and who knows what else. Prescription drugs can be inhaled as well. I think there is a pandora's box of negative possibilities available here.
I'll ask the Lung Association.
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Manitoba Lung Association, Canadian Lung Association
And that is happening. It's happened, I can tell you, in Manitoba. They had some students using marijuana in the classroom with e-cigarettes, because there was no ban on e-cigarettes. So that's something that kids will probably try to do.
I agree with you. It's the size of the particulate that is really concerning to us, because the finer the particulate, the greater chance it will be inhaled and the greater chance it will be imbedded in the lungs. There are no definitive studies that have been done yet to say what the damage will be, but I think we can make some presumptions on that, based on what we do know now.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
That would be the precautionary principle, and we probably have good reason to want to apply it rather strenuously and control the spread of these.
But on the dual use component and renormalization, is it not really a get out of jail free card in essence for many smokers, because of the restrictions on where you can smoke conventional cigarettes? In fact, they can get their nicotine fix in areas where otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to smoke. So actually they use them where it's not convenient to smoke their conventional cigarette. They just use the e-cigarette then and use the other ones afterwards.
12:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Manitoba Lung Association, Canadian Lung Association
They do that and there's also some concern that when people do smoke cigarettes, they'll have their cigarette on a break in a different area so they'll smoke a limited amount. But we're finding, and this is just anecdotal, that people are using their e-cigarettes continually. So there's some concern being expressed about that as well.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Yes, about the volume of nicotine that they might be getting.... Now, I think that question might have come up from another questioner. I think it was Ms. Fry.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Ben Lobb
We're coming up on five minutes, so we're going to try to...but thank you.
Ms. Fry and then Mr. Young.