Evidence of meeting #47 for Health in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was midwifery.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Lise St-Denis Liberal Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC
In other words, is the industry's perspective more important than the public's when it comes to your behaviour on these matters?
Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Department of Health
No. Our primary mandate at the PMRA and of the Pest Control Products Act is health and environmental protection. That's our primary mandate.
Conservative
David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.
If you have a copy of your report, I wonder if you could refer to page 7. With regard to maximum residue limits, I have a question. In looking through that report quickly, I see that the “PMRA is actively involved in ongoing [maximum residue limits] initiatives” and that “[t]hese ongoing projects should also assist in further aligning MRLs for major and minor uses of pesticides to minimize trade barriers of pesticide-treated commodities between global partners”.
I wonder if you could elaborate on precisely how these MRLs will benefit our trade relations with global partners going forward.
Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Department of Health
Certainly.
For MRLs, as I indicated in my opening remarks, the PMRA does set, under the Pest Control Products Act, the maximum amount of pesticide residues that can legally be allowed to be found on a food commodity. We recognize too, though, that because Canada sets these MRLs, as do other countries around the world, if we have a different numerical standard than some of these other countries, there can be issues in terms of the movement of food commodities between countries.
We have been doing quite a bit of work with, for example, Agriculture Canada. We've been doing some work with them to try to understand whether or not where, when, how, and if these MRLs are causing potential trade barriers around the world. This can have an impact for market access for some of Canada's exports, for some Canadian agricultural producers trying to export their commodities to other markets around the world, which is hugely important for them. As you know, it's truly a global marketplace now.
What we've tried to do is provide our scientific expertise on the nature of these maximum residue levels, the nature of the data, information, and science that Canada has behind setting its standard, and to help share that information with other countries that may have different data, or information, or a food safety standard-setting process, so that we can align how we set these standards with other countries and try to resolve some of these differences.
Very often, the differences in these maximum residue levels between countries are actually very small, and they don't represent any kind of true safety difference between countries. A lot of the time, these are simply irritants because they're small differences. To be honest, sometimes some countries try to exploit those small differences to create these trade barriers or maybe to create a business risk that there might be a trade issue if commodity X is exported to another country. We've been providing a lot of scientific expertise, both to agriculture and through our other network of contacts in OECD countries, as well as the Codex forum on food safety standards, to try to help alleviate some of these trade barriers that truly aren't necessary.
Conservative
David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
When it comes to other countries and these minor irritants, as you've said, how do you educate these countries with regard to our standards? As I heard you say earlier, we have one of the higher standards in the world. How do we go about educating other countries with regard to those standards that Canada has?
Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Department of Health
I think one of our key mechanisms is to continue to be at the table with those other OECD countries, exchanging information and working closely together on the registration process and the re-evaluation process for chemicals. As we go through that process, we align with each other on our policy approaches to things like setting maximum residue levels. We can challenge each other as to whether we're using the best and most up-to-date science to set those kinds of standards.
That's our approach. It's to make sure we're at the table with our colleagues and we can challenge each other. This is truly an appropriate science-based standard.
Conservative
David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Another important part as a regulator is reaching out and speaking with the industry that you affect. How good a job is PMRA doing right now of engaging with the pest control industry, as well as with farmers and Canadians?
Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Department of Health
I guess I'd like to think that we're doing the best job we can in making sure that we're engaging all our stakeholders. Certainly, we have a good relationship with all our stakeholder groups. Whether we're talking industry or other environmental organizations, we try to maintain a very good relationship with all our stakeholders, and with the public who are importantly trying to express their concerns.
We routinely meet with different industry associations including CropLife Canada to make sure we understand each other in terms of what our needs are. We meet with all the major grower associations very frequently, such as the Canadian Horticultural Council. We meet frequently with all the different agricultural groups. We work closely with Agriculture Canada under a number of initiatives to make sure that we understand the agricultural use of pesticides and the interests of that sector. Even internationally, we engage frequently with the international industry sector to ensure that we understand what the global dynamics are with pesticides, both in terms of what's coming down the pipeline and what the international issues are with pest control products.
Conservative
David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC
Just quickly, Mr. Chair, if I may on page 12 of your report it indicates, “In 2013-2014, the PMRA carried out approximately 1500 enforcement responses aimed at correcting non-compliance within the regulated community.” Then at the bottom of the paragraph it says, “Most enforcement activities took place in the provinces of Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia.”
Does that have a lot to do with border transactions between the United States and Canada, because those are probably the most significant three provinces that deal across borders, or is there a reason why those three provinces were highlighted?
Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Department of Health
I think it's in part based on the population, but you're right there is a significant amount of border movement of products and commodities through those three provinces. That's part of it. What it also says in a way is that we have obviously a huge geography in the middle there, in terms of the prairie provinces in terms of agriculture. We have a lot of very intense agriculture of certain types in provinces like Ontario and British Columbia, horticultural crops for example. There's that, whereas in the Prairies, we have a relatively smaller number of larger major crops. That might explain a little bit of the difference there. I think most importantly with this is that we actually have a very high level of success in bringing back to compliance those situations where we find non-compliance. We find educational letters and outreach campaigns are hugely successful in bringing folks back to compliance.
On the agriculture side, for example, there's a real understanding there that pest control products need to be used in a very specific way, and there's not any tolerance there for anything different. We know we can bring people back to compliance because of the way we set up our compliance and enforcement programs in the country. It's a big country; there are a lot of different sectors. There are a lot of commodity groups and organizations that we need to look at compliance with, but we will go sector by sector and if we find some non-compliance in a sector we'll take action as needed. We'll cycle back to those areas of higher risk, or those areas of non-compliance, and make sure that they are coming back to compliance.
Conservative
NDP
Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My question relates to the list of products that have been approved for use. Mr. Aucoin, could you please tell me how many are permitted in Canada but not in the United States, or the opposite, how many products are banned in the United States but not here?
Is the process for approving a product in the United States comparable to ours? Does the process take roughly the same time as in Canada? And does the act give you some power to prohibit the import of products grown using pesticides banned in Canada? PMRA bans crops grown using certain pesticides. However, if products grown in other countries using pesticides that are banned by your agency because they are not considered safe are imported into Canada through the back door, Canadians might still consume them.
Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Department of Health
Certainly, and I probably shouldn't know this number, but I do know the number. We have about 7,000 pest control products approved for use in Canada, even though probably a much smaller number than that are actually being used. There is an approval for about 7,000 different pest control products in Canada. I think that in the United States it's more in the 12,000 range of pest control products, with 11,000 or 12,000 products. We have to appreciate that there's a difference between the chemical active ingredients in those products and the number of products. There can be various versions and formulations of the same kind of pesticide, so there are about 7,000.
Under the legislation, no one can import, sell, or use a pest control product in Canada unless it has a federal approval under the Pest Control Products Act, which is what we do and administer. No one can use any product in Canada that does not have our approval. No one can import a product from the United States into Canada if it does not have Canadian approval. There is a very small number of products that have some sort of minor use exemptions, but for the most part it's prohibited to do that—
NDP
Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Excuse me, but I would like to clarify my question.
It had to do with products that had been grown. For example, is it possible to find on the market in Canada carrots that have been grown using pesticides that are not permitted in Canada?
Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Department of Health
We do set maximum residue levels for each pesticide. There is a maximum residue level set for each pesticide and each type of crop grown in Canada, and it is essentially the standard that we set. That is enforced by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. Produce coming in from another country has to meet our standards. Similarly, produce going from Canada into the United States has to meet their standards. There is a very specific standard required before it can move across the border. Within Canada, you can only use a specific pesticide on a specific crop or product such as carrots if it has that specific approval from us on the label of the product.
NDP
Christine Moore NDP Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
What are the consequences for people who grow products that exceed the limits?
Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Department of Health
As I say, with our compliance and enforcement program, we have a range of tools that are usually very specific to the situation. It depends on the level of risk posed by those situations. For example, we can start with a farmer who has done this unintentionally. There can be warning letters, but it can go up to very significant monetary penalties if there are repeat violations of the Pest Control Products Act. There is a range of responses that are based on the specific situation.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
Thank you, Mr. Aucoin.
You seem to be getting a lot of questions in a row, so if you want to take a drink of water, please go ahead, because I need to ask you a couple more.
Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency, Department of Health
I'm okay.
Conservative
Terence Young Conservative Oakville, ON
Thank you.
This committee just completed a study of Vanessa's Law, which is now the law of Canada and is all about transparency and openness with regard to keeping Canadians safe when using prescription drugs. That will empower researchers, doctors, and even patients to get the information they need to keep themselves safe or keep their patients safe. What has the PMRA done to increase transparency and openness to help keep Canadians safe?
