Evidence of meeting #154 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sterilization.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada
I can't answer that, because, as I say, I had thought that this was a historical practice. You're asking me to speculate about something that....
NDP
Chief Executive Officer, Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada
It's even more than what you've described. There's also the whole hormonal milieu in pregnancy. You're flooded with oxytocin. It's called the cuddle hormone. You don't have your natural safeguards working for you when you're full of oxytocin. It's an altered state of brain. It is clear that this is the time to avoid, and it's not necessary. You have alternatives if someone really doesn't want to consent.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I understand that.
We had some testimony before, and I want to clarify something. Is the physician who's performing the tubal ligation or the procedure ultimately responsible for ensuring that informed consent has been given?
Chief Executive Officer, Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada
Yes.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
If these in fact have happened, these tubal ligations, then it is the person who's performing.... In all cases it would be a physician, I imagine, of some type. You mentioned that it could be a family physician or an—
Chief Executive Officer, Society of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists of Canada
You are responsible. If you're the operating surgeon, you are responsible.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Okay. Thank you.
Dr. Bartlett, I don't know if you were in the room when we heard the testimony of the commissioner of the RCMP who seems to have, up to now, found it difficult to determine the name of a single woman who has had this happen. How difficult is it—you've done some research—to find out the identities or names of women who have reported forced or coerced sterilization in Canada?
Retired professor, Faculty of Medicine, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
Even from our study, it's difficult. We have assured them that this is confidential, so, in fact, their names are destroyed.
Retired professor, Faculty of Medicine, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I know who they are, but I can't—
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
You can't say who they are, but you've discovered who they are.
Retired professor, Faculty of Medicine, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I've interviewed them, but I don't have their names anymore.
Retired professor, Faculty of Medicine, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
We found them. They found us through our posters and our reaching out. We had to reach out through the appropriate channels and take the appropriate process.
Retired professor, Faculty of Medicine, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
You can't just go out and say “report it.” The Saskatoon Health Region has a great in-ward reporting system for anything that goes wrong. The problem is that these women aren't even in a position to feel safe enough to do that.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Right, and I'm going to get to that if I can.
The Saskatchewan Health Authority is currently investigating the case of a 30-year-old woman, a Nakota woman, who says she was the victim of coerced sterilization at a Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, hospital on December 13, 2018. Does the Saskatchewan Health Authority know who that is?
Retired professor, Faculty of Medicine, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I couldn't tell you.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Okay.
A November 2018 article from APTN news quotes Senator Boyer as saying the following with respect to the report you co-authored: “The report that Dr. Bartlett and I did was just a mere glimpse into the problem.” We heard, of course, about the 100 allegations. Do you believe we currently understand the full scope of this problem in Canada?
Retired professor, Faculty of Medicine, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
No, I don't think so. I think a lot more research has to be done. I think something has to be done to make sure this doesn't happen.
In terms of how all the women will come forward and deal with this, even the women who came to us said that when they left, they felt so much better just from having talked about it, just from having said it. There has to be something put in place where women can actually go and talk about this. They may not want to go to court or they may not want to talk to the health authority, but they need to express this harm.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Right.
I was struck by your use of the words “extraordinary measures”. We heard Commissioner Lucki talk about the need to build trust in police. Last month there was some pretty disturbing video of a Kelowna RCMP officer interrogating an underage indigenous woman, a teen, for more than two hours after she reported a sexual assault while in the care of the B.C. child welfare system. She was barraged with such denigrating questions as to whether or not she was at all turned on by it. A statement of claim was filed in March by that youth, who claimed that she felt punished for reporting a sexual assault. She also alleged that no meaningful investigations were carried out surrounding the circumstances of the sexual assault.
This is the context in which indigenous women are experiencing interactions with the police, yet we just heard the commissioner of the RCMP say they're going to wait until indigenous women come to them. We just had the report of the murdered and missing women inquiry, which dealt with this issue in the context of genocide. Do you think it's reasonable for the Government of Canada to refuse to direct the RCMP or for the RCMP to refuse to undertake proactive investigations, to reach out to indigenous women, given that context of the experience of indigenous women with police in Canada?
Retired professor, Faculty of Medicine, University of Manitoba, As an Individual
I think they can reach out, but reaching out has to be done differently. A whole process has to be undertaken in order to reach out. I don't think women will come forward to the RCMP. There's no safety there for them. I don't think they will. I'm not sure I can answer your question....
NDP
