Evidence of meeting #21 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cost.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
No. It's just direction to them, because for sure we are going to be relying on what they bring back to us.
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
There are two parts to it.
The snapshot of where we are is a matter of looking at the data that is available to see exactly where we are. That's something we can certainly look at.
Advice on how to fund the program is something that's outside of our mandate. We do not deal with policy, and there are good reasons for that. Although our mandate does not specifically mention whether we do policy work or not, the operating principle we have established since the beginning is not to get involved in policy discussion. In our belief, that is really the job of the elected officials, not the parliamentary budget office. We can look at the costs and analyze the deficit and the budget, but not provide any recommendation on how to fund this specific program.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
That's exactly the answer I was looking for, so thank you for that.
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you for being with us today, witnesses.
I want to clear up some fundamental issues. I think it is very clear that if this committee gives you proper parameters, you can develop the costing of universal pharmacare. Is that correct?
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
Yes.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
We can also work with the committee. It's not only a matter of providing. As I said, it is a back-and-forth discussion, as we do with other committees. We develop the terms of reference based on whatever factors, drivers, and parameters you provide, and then we discuss that. If you don't agree with our terms of reference, we will work on it. It comes from the committee.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Okay.
The other thing this committee is looking for is to gather some data from an objective source on, for instance, the number of Canadians who currently don't have access to prescription coverage and those kinds of things. Can the PBO also do that for us?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
We can do that. I can tell you it is mid-fiscal year, so it's a good time to ask us, because we can still play with our budget. It is going to cost money, as you know.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
All right.
If I'm understanding you correctly, Mr. Fréchette, you need this committee to develop the parameters of the program that we're asking you to cost. Is that correct?
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
What I'm unclear on is whether the motion that has been given to you is clear enough for you yet, or are you asking this committee to spend some more time on developing clearer parameters to give you?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
It's too clear. It's too detailed. I'm sure you worked a lot on that motion, but it's the first time we have a motion before we do terms of reference. Normally it's vice versa. We work, we have discussions with the committee, we develop terms of reference, and then your committee can have a motion on those terms of reference. The work is done.
For example, item c. of your motion asks for the estimate of the costs of creation and administration, and you have two parameters there. Then you can add whether it is national, monopolistic, financed only by the federal government, and so on. That would be the basis, and then you add to that. Then we could work with that and present you our terms of reference.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I know we can, but is this clear enough? Could you go away from this meeting with this motion and proceed to provide us with the costing we're asking for, or do you need this committee to sharpen any particular parameter for you? That's what I'm trying to find out.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
If we can play with the motion, if the motion is not final and adopted such that this is what we have to do, then we certainly can play with it a little bit and reorganize and have terms of reference using some of the elements of the motion.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Is there enough for you to take this away and do some preliminary work and come back to the committee, and then have us maybe examine the parameters and adjust the study? Is that something you'd suggest we do?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
I would suggest that. I would prefer to do that, as opposed to having a strict motion to follow without any wiggle room. I need some discretion about what I can do.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
The last paragraph is the best example, as I gave you earlier.
Mostafa wants to add something.
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
I'll be very brief.
Typically if there is a request like section c. of the motion, it's broad enough. If the committee can eventually provide some more details in terms of whether you are looking at this as a federal program or as a provincial program, if it is to be fully integrated with the medical system or managed separately, those kinds of parameters are important for us in doing the final costing. If we have those, then on that basis we can develop terms of reference that we will send back for the committee's final approval. Once the terms of reference are approved, we would go away and do our work and write the report. Then we'll send the report back.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Would you suggest that you take this motion, look at it, and give us suggestions on what further parameters might be helpful, such as the ones you just mentioned as to whether it is integrated—
Assistant Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer, Library of Parliament
That is certainly a possibility. If that's the wish of the committee, yes, we can certainly do that.
