Health Committee on March 7th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Dr. Taylor.

[Dr. Gregory Taylor]

I'd like to echo Dr. Sher's comments. This is a great opportunity to speak to you and to have media present to speak to Canadians and reassure them that for the vast majority of Canadians this is a very low risk.

The message I'd like to leave you with is, again, that this is not going to be the last one and wasn't the first. These are going to require a global response for a whole variety of reasons. Just as the agency cannot act alone but needs many government departments, Canada cannot act alone. We've been working very closely with all of our colleagues across the world.

I think Ebola illustrated that very well. We were lucky with the Ebola. We had a vaccine that we had developed and it was ready to go. We don't have that for Zika. If we had one for Zika, this would be a much different story. It's going to take a while. There are technologies, some in Canada, that can make rapid production of vaccines possible, but doing so requires huge resources, and it has to be on a global stage.

I think that's the last message I would leave: it requires a global response. In the next little while, as I mentioned at the outset, our advice is going to change, because the science will evolve almost on a daily basis, and the advice and recommendations will change.

Thank you again for the opportunity to be the first two witnesses at your—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

And the best so far, too.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Thanks very much.

We'll take a break for a couple of minutes. Then we're going to come back to talk about the report of the steering committee and see whether we can pass it and get some direction.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I think everybody has a copy of the report from the steering committee. It lists in the priority order the issues we and the steering committee came up with.

I don't know if there is any discussion on this. Does anybody take exception to anything here? Would you rather see something different?

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Reading through this I'm trying to determine the difference between undertaking a study and requesting a briefing. To me, obviously, requesting a briefing is basically a much shorter version whereas undertaking a study seems to be more intense.

Of course, I was part of that subcommittee and the meetings there, but with regard to undertaking a study, do we have days, meetings, planned for each of these?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I think the analyst has a work plan.

Do you?

[Karin Phillips, Committee Researcher]

That actually would be a good thing for the committee to decide today, how much time they want to devote to each of these subjects.

The difference in terms of a study versus a briefing is that a study is usually longer and there's a report tied to it whereas briefings are usually listed as information sessions on our website. It's usually one or two days. It is a study as well, but there is usually not a report tied to it.

Sometimes a committee can decide to have a briefing, like say you had your briefing today, and then all of a sudden feel like you want a report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

It's a good question. Are we going to have a report from the meeting today? From the conclusions we had today is it normal to file a report?

I think we should have a report because I think we all learned something, and I think we should have a report. Could we commission the analyst to develop a one-hundred page report?

[Karin Phillips]

Does the committee have recommendations?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I think what we learned today—I don't mean to assume anything—is that the risk is low. I think we could emphasize that the two agencies said the risk is low to Canadians. It can only be transferred to women in Canada by two ways, which I think is important because people asked me about how it can be transmitted, and I didn't know until today.

That would give people confidence I think if they knew that it could only be transferred two ways.

Also, the people who really are going to be affected are women who are pregnant or are going to be pregnant. Apparently most others hardly even know they have it.

That's it for me.

Mr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If we were going to do a report, it would be great to have a couple of recommendations from it. I know I was talking to some of the witnesses, and I did request that they send some information on to us, because one of the things I was trying to focus on is prevention.

I know through the H1N1 when we did that there was a whole system where we were able to do public relations to get the information out because, as you said quite rightly, it's a rare occurrence that things would happen, but the evidence is showing that if something does occur, it can be quite serious, even the death of a fetus.

If we had an opportunity to do the report and put some recommendations in, that would be great.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

We could have a report that listed the risk and the ways it can be transmitted. What else should the report have in it?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I think it should have a review of what we actually heard today. It should talk about what the witnesses brought forward and what we learned. You were saying you learned quite a bit today. So did I.

Then recommendations would be based on what we can do as a committee to recommend to the government how they could better manage it, because one of the things I learned today with these new technologies is that the pathogen inactivation technology could be a game-changer.

We have the opportunity in Canada to facilitate that and maybe expedite it, because Zika is not the last virus we're going to have to deal with for sure. These always come up. I think we're all aware this is not something that's going to be a pandemic that's going to affect every Canadian out there or people around the world, but it's about how to go about managing it. Prevention would be the best way to manage these on an ongoing basis.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I think another issue would be public awareness, because I wasn't aware of the things they're saying, and I wasn't aware of the documents they have that you pointed out.

I saw that public awareness is a job that they have, or we have, and perhaps it could be just a little better. We all learned a lot today, and perhaps we should have known some of that—I don't know.

Go ahead, Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chairman.

Just to throw another angle on it, I think the committee is master of its own business. We can do whatever we want, so we can certainly issue a report if we want. Customarily, a briefing is very different from a study and a report. We received a briefing today. That was a briefing for us as members of this committee. I didn't anticipate a report would come out of it.

Generally, when we say we want a briefing, it's to receive a briefing. When we undertake a study, generally it's to study in depth, hear from a variety of perspectives, and issue a report. The reason I think that distinction might be helpful....

I have two concerns about issuing a report based on today. Number one is that we did not have a comprehensive series of witnesses. We had two government agencies. Typically, in a study that results in a report you have a wide variety of witnesses from a wide variety of perspectives. Maybe there are epidemiologists or people working in disease control that would take issue with what was heard today. I don't know, but maybe that's the case.

Second, I'm really concerned because much of what I heard today mirrors what I heard on Friday, which is that the information on this is changing—and we heard it here—daily, maybe even weekly. By the time we write our report and get our recommendations, for all I know the gestation period for the virus in semen could be found to be.... As I said, I heard 62 days, and 14 days here today, so I'd be very concerned about this committee putting out a report based on one day of testimony from two government agencies without testing information on something that we know is a highly labile, fast-changing subject.

Now, we could write a report with that in mind—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I'd even say that, that it's fast changing.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Yes, we could keep it tight. If we do a report, I would suggest that it be very tight, that it be kept to what it is we're very confident of, and that we name what is not known.

Those are my thoughts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Are there any other comments?

[Darshan Singh Kang, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

I will echo Mr. Davies' comments.

We have had three million Canadians travelling to the Zika-virus affected areas, and we know of only 20 cases. We don't know what could evolve in the near future. There should be some kind of volunteer, if not mandatory, testing done on those people who travel to the Zika-virus affected areas. I think there may be a lot more people who are infected with the Zika virus that we don't know of.

If you're doing a report, I think we should keep that in mind too, that those people should be tested.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Are there any other comments?

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I was wondering, if we're going to be doing a report.... The analysts did somewhat of a review of the literature that's out there. Maybe we could ask them to enhance that a little. I have no problem keeping the report tight. There's such little information out there, since it's a new thing. I think this committee could show leadership by putting what we know as of today out there. It may help policy decision-makers, even at lower levels of government, to better get the information out. As I was saying today, the best treatment for this is obviously prevention, and the only way to prevent it is to get that information out.

One of the witnesses was saying it's the sexual activity, so automatically, if you're down in those areas, wear a condom. But people don't know that. What's the likelihood of somebody getting bitten by a mosquito when they're on vacation down there? I'd say it's highly likely.

With the comment that we heard of 20, that's a huge underestimation of what's going on out there. I think it's an opportunity for us to show a leadership role, and to take into account what Don was saying, it should be pretty tight.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I agree there is not a lot for us to put out a parliamentary report. How about we put out a summary of the testimony we heard today? I think we should. There should be some record that we spent the day here listening to a lot of knowledgeable people. Together we will draft a summary of the testimony. It's not a report that says this, this, and this. I think it was very useful and I agree that you have to hear all sides of the story, which we didn't. But we did hear some valuable testimony. We'll draft a summary based on what we heard and we'll bring it back for approval.

Is that okay with everybody? All in favour of a summary?

Great. Okay.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have one quick question. Is this the only time we are going to see some witnesses for Zika, or are we going to bring in some other witnesses?