Health Committee on Nov. 24th, 2016

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

It's Liberal again, okay. You made it sound like seven minutes each and then we would end it there, but I guess I misunderstood.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

It was just for the first round.

You may continue, Mr. Kang.

[Darshan Singh Kang, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll start again. At the first meeting on Bill C-233 on November 17, Mimi Lowi-Young, former CEO of the Alzheimer Society of Canada, told the committee that women are most affected by the disease, that 65% have the disease and 72% are primary caregivers. Do you anticipate that a gender-based analysis plus assessment will form part of the discussion leading to establishing a national strategy on Alzheimer's disease and other forms of dementia?

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

It's an excellent point and that gives me a chance also to commend Mimi on her fine work while she was the CEO of the Alzheimer Society.

Her point is well taken, that there are certain diseases that disproportionately affect women, and this is one of them. Dementia does disproportionately affect women. In terms of the gender-based analysis we believe has been done—two guys sitting down here, frankly—we're looking at this disease to recognize that diseases that have affected women have historically had less attention, less funding, less research, than diseases that have affected men if you look at the funding that has gone on, and we're trying to change that.

I don't think that we have a focus on women in this bill, but because we're looking at dementia, it will focus itself on women and men. Since women have that caregiver facility, I think that looking at other things from the federal perspective that could affect this, whether it's changes to EI or episodic respite care and those kinds of things, those kinds of things could be discussed because there is a federal mandate there. I think this is an important statement that we need to put attention on diseases that have disproportionately affected women.

[Darshan Singh Kang, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

Thank you, sir.

The bill acknowledges the role of caregivers for individuals living with Alzheimer's disease. Can you talk a little bit about home care? Will home care be partially playing a role in that, or will the main focus be on home care? I'm a fan of home care because personally, home care has helped me and my family. I think home care could help everybody if there were proper home care in place. That's my second question.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

This bill won't directly impact on long-term care or home care or on the various things that need to go into that national health accord. It would focus instead on the disease that could lead to requirements for it, but I think, obviously, I would encourage this committee to be taking up some of those issues.

This bill, I would say, only indirectly would affect it, but an advisory committee could remind the minister about other responsibilities that he or she would have and so it could fit in.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I'll give you the example of the tax credit for people who look after people. This is another issue and it's good that you raise it, because this is a huge component of it. The individual who acquires this disease suffers, but everyone around him or her suffers as well.

[Darshan Singh Kang, Liberal, Calgary Skyview, AB]

We can have all kinds of advisory boards in place and if there's no back-up plan in place I think it's defeating the purpose of doing all this.

Mr. Chair, I'll share my time with Mr. Oliver.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you very much.

I want to come back one more time to the intent of the bill. I'm sorry to be focused on this.

We heard from Dale Goldhawk, the vice-chair of Alzheimer's Disease International, and from David Henderson, Canadian Society of Palliative Care Physicians. We heard from Kathleen Jamieson and Sheila Pither, Council of Senior Citizens' Organizations of B.C. We heard from Mimi Lowi-Young and others. They all spoke to the need for a national dementia strategy. They all want a cure for Alzheimer's, but they spoke to the need for a national dementia strategy.

I'm concerned that there are two agendas in this bill. There is the drive for the cure for Alzheimer's, but at the same time there's a need to have a national strategy on how we help people and caregivers living with dementia continue.

One last time—and maybe I'll start with you, Mr. Oliphant, and then Mr. Nicholson—I'll ask you what your views are on separating these out a bit more.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

It's one of those cases where everything is good. I think this week when I read the Senate report on dementia I recognized that the bill needed to have that. I think it does have it in it and it has drawn attention to Alzheimer's and other dementias.

My overall concern is people and people with dementia regardless of where it comes from. That's my first thing. However, I recognize that Alzheimer's is a focused area of research that needs attention. I just don't want to lose it completely, because I think that there is huge promise in that, whether it's at the Baycrest Health Sciences centre or others where they're doing that kind of focused research.

My hope is that it doesn't get lost in the whole mix, but the reality is dementia is a horrible disease that people are going through and I want people to be cared for.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I want the same thing, of course. It's important that we do focus on Alzheimer's. We know what the statistics are telling us. We know the international attempts to coordinate research into this particular area, and I don't want to lose that by all other good areas of research that we can and should be doing.

I have to make a comment as well about that Senate committee, and the criticism sometimes directed at our colleagues in the Senate. I don't want to digress from what we're talking about here, but they do come up with very good reports. In the different portfolios that I've had over the years, I very much have appreciated all the work that they have done. This is just another example of the kind of good work and good research that they produce.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Time is up.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Could I just close, Mr. Chair, by saying that there are many relatively new MPs on this committee, and I hope that they look at the “Rob show”, and look at ways that you can actually make a huge difference in Parliament by bringing bills together, by working across party lines. This is the way Parliament should work. It started with Mr. Nicholson inviting me, and that's the way we have to work.

If you're considering a private member's bill, and you drew too low in the lottery, as I did, find a nice person across the aisle and work on it.

This wouldn't have happened without the groundwork from Claude, our good friend. That is a model, and I encourage you to do it because it's fun, too.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I obviously chose the right nice guy across the aisle as well, so it goes both ways.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

It's a bromance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

It's great that you support each other so well.

We deal with some incredible subjects at this committee, and we hear some incredible testimony. The testimony we heard today and previously on this subject was really moving.

This committee hears things. We just wish that all Canadians could sit in on this committee sometimes, and hear about opioid addictions, pharmaceutical issues, and Alzheimer's disease issues. We'd probably have a much different approach to health issues if everybody could hear what we hear.

The first line responders, the paramedics, and the firefighters who land on the scene quite often, to hear their testimony, it's incredible.

Anyway, we thank you very much.

Actually, I just want to blow my own horn here a little bit. Years ago, and Mr. Nicholson might remember, I had a private member's bill to develop a brain tumour registry in Canada. There was no registry; there were no records. Doctors couldn't compare situations across the country. That was a private member's bill that passed, as yours hopefully will. It's quite gratifying to have that happen.

Thank you very much for your testimony.

We're going to take a break, and then we're going to do clause-by-clause study, and see if we can complete this.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

We're reconvening.

I want to welcome our legislative clerk, Mr. Champagne, who is going to help us through this clause-by-clause process.

Mr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, I was a little bit surprised and shocked about these amendments, and how much they're changing the real intent of the bill. The last one I have here, the fourth amendment, says to change it to the Dementia Act. Considering all the testimony that we've had, I would like to ask my colleague—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Let's go through it clause by clause, and there may be some changes. I suspect there will be.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Where did these come from? Who was asking for this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Mr. Oliver.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you for the question.

It was based on the first round of testimony, where we heard that we needed national strategies for dementia. There was a real weighting to dementia. We heard from the witnesses, the caregivers, and others that this was their focus. But I heard today that a big part of Mr. Nicholson's intent was to deal with Alzheimer's disease specifically, so I'm going to withdraw them. I'm not going to table them. They aren't on the table. I think we should do the clauses.

I'm torn between if every single disease advocacy group wants to have.... I mean, we can deal with every single type of cancer, every single type of diabetes, or every single type of anything, but is it a question of disease emphasis or the condition? It's like palliative care. I think we need a national strategy for palliative care, absolutely, and the causes of people being in palliation are multiple.

Likewise, we need a national strategy for dementia. The causes of dementia are multiple, but based on what I heard from Mr. Nicholson in terms of his intent, I think the need to leave in the reference to Alzheimer's is important. That's why I'm not tabling them. I'll make some changes through these to rebalance that a bit where I think it is a bit too weighted to Alzheimer's. Is that fair enough?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Thanks to both of you.

We're going to move to clause-by-clause consideration.

Dr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Before we go in camera, Mr. Chair, could I seek unanimous consent from the committee to have the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health present for the clause-by-clause discussion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I don't think we're going to go in camera. We don't have to go in camera for this.