Health Committee on Feb. 2nd, 2017

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You've chosen to come before this committee, not as an MP but as a witness, and in a non-partisan role, so I'm asking for your position. Is the one-year ban discriminatory or not?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

My position is that it discriminates against sub-populations for which we have no data, and I want to see data that shows if we're going to continue to have a deferral period that there is a reason, a risk to the blood supply, that justifies that exclusion of the population.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Is the current one-year ban based on science, in your view, or not?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I think Héma-Québec and CBS will tell you they want to see more data.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm asking what you believe. I know what Héma-Québec and CBS say.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I believe that the current blood ban excludes me and an entire population of Canadians who, because of their sexual orientation—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Is it based on science or not?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I think it's based on the best science that was available at the time.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Okay. Number two, I think you have mischaracterized the case. There is no doubt that this decision that's been made by CBS and Héma-Québec can absolutely be overridden by the minister. There is no question that the Minister of Health has the power to remove restrictions on donations that are no longer required. Do you agree with that?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

We would disagree on that.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You think that the Minister of Health does not have the power to change the current restrictions on men who have sex with men?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

For the safety of the blood supply, it is critical that we work with CBS and Héma-Québec to recommend any deferral period to the government.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I respectfully suggest you're wrong. The Minister of Health does have the power to override that if she wants to.

You also are aware that 17 countries around the world have zero deferral periods for men who have sex with men donating blood?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I am, and I referenced that in my opening comments.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

What you said in your campaign, as Mr. Webber pointed out, and I'm quoting from the Liberal Party's campaign literature:

Currently the Canadian Blood Services (CBS) and Héma-Québec (HM-QC) ban men who have been sexually active with men at any point in the previous five years from donating blood, even if it has been entirely safe and monogamous. This policy ignores scientific evidence and must end.

I put it to you, sir, if you have men who have sex with men who have been monogamous and engaged in entirely safe same-sex practices for one year, is that not also ignoring scientific evidence to prevent them from donating blood?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

That is a really good question that you should put to CBS and Héma-Québec. I agree.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Dr. MacPherson and Dr. Wainberg, a professor of medicine at the McGill University AIDS Centre, both are former presidents of the International AIDS Society, believe that Canadian Blood Services should simply include questions about donor behaviour. According to Dr. Wainberg:

If you’re a man in a long-term, stable relationship and you and your partner are both negative, then the risks are exactly the same as those of a heterosexual couple....

That being the case, do you agree or disagree with that statement, that the risks are exactly the same for men who have sex with men in a stable monogamous relationship as those for heterosexuals? Do you have any evidence to dispute that?

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Dr. Wainberg and I spoke at the conference. He spoke very forcefully in plenary about following the microbiology, and the fact that after you've tested the blood, after you know after two months, it doesn't matter whether the blood is there for two months, five years, or 20 years, the microbiology doesn't change. I agree with Dr. Wainberg's comment about behavioural risks.

We need data to support the blood regulators so we can assure Canadians that the blood supply will be safe, so we can have an inclusive population. I want to see the blood ban at zero tomorrow. I want Canadians to know that the blood supply will be safe when we do that.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Dr. Paul MacPherson, another HIV researcher, says there's no good data to say that it needs to be one year.

You seem to be suggesting that data needs to be shown to prove that it's okay to have this blood, when I would say the opposite. If we're going to adopt a practice that discriminates against Canadian men who have sex with men, then I would say it's incumbent upon those who assert that to supply data to show why that's necessary. All we're seeing from experts and doctors is that there is no data to support that policy, yet your government refuses to keep its promise made during the election campaign and reduce it to zero, even when there's no data to support keeping that discriminatory restriction in place.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

It's important to note, and I applaud and share your passion on this matter—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

It's just logic and science.

[Randy Boissonnault, Liberal, Edmonton Centre, AB]

There's logic and passion and science, and what's important is that Canadians came at this issue from a different place. We are working very hard to make sure we get this blood ban to zero, and that's why getting the data is important. Canadians need to know the blood supply is safe, and it's also important that we demonstrate, as Dr. Wainberg said, the very low to no risk factors of a monogamous gay couple.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Have you asked any of the 17 countries if there's any data?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Mr. Davies, you're considerably over time.

Dr. Eyolfson, please.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Boissonnault. Thank you for coming. We really appreciate your work on this.

Now this goes back a while and we talked about the Krever inquiry and the recommendations of the Krever inquiry. What was the scientific data at the time that made them conclude that there should be a lifetime ban?