Health Committee on Feb. 23rd, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Yes.

[Prof. Amir Attaran]

I agree with everything that has been said. I think the statement that there's a secure constitutional footing is a little too optimistic.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

That completes our hearing with our witnesses.

I want to say that we get some incredible witnesses here, but you two have brought a whole dimension that we haven't heard before. I want to compliment you on your presentation. If we do manage to get from a D to an A, you have helped us a lot.

I want to say to the committee members too that I think they have done a really good job of getting the right questions out and getting the answers.

Thank you very much for coming. It has been a very interesting meeting.

We're going to break for a second, and then we're going to go into committee business.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Let's reconvene. I need the members of the committee to listen to me carefully, because I need some help. I want to try to accommodate everybody's wishes here and I want to explain where we are.

This morning when I came in, we had an agenda for our committee business. That entailed, first of all, passing the subcommittee report. That was my intention when I came in. Then I ran into Dr. Carrie, and Dr. Carrie asked if we could move the thalidomide report up and not do it in camera. It seemed like a reasonable request until the clerk reminded me that we have next week off and that if we don't pass the subcommittee report, nothing will get done in terms of arranging witnesses, writing reports, and all those things, because the whole week will be lost.

Here's a proposal. If we can pass the subcommittee report in public without a whole lot of debate, then that requires us to go directly to the thalidomide report, and we'll never go in camera through the whole thing. If we do get into a debate on the subcommittee report and talk about witnesses, we have to go in camera. I have to do the subcommittee report and get that done first.

Mr. Davies, you're first.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I move that the committee adopt the second report of the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure of the Standing Committee on Health, and then move to consideration of the thalidomide report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I have to hear Dr. Eyolfson, but thank you for your motion.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I think it would be more suitable if we went in camera at this point.

I would like to make a motion that we do go in camera for committee business. We often go in camera for committee business because we're often talking about witnesses and other confidential names. We've had issues with security. I think that would be best.

I don't know if Don's motion is on the floor, and we have to deal with that first.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I think we do.

We have to deal with Don's motion first, but Mr. Kmiec, do you have an issue?

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

If we deal with the subcommittee motion with no debate and just approve it as is—I'm sure the analysts and the clerk have done a fantastic job of reading the transcript—I would like to deal with the thalidomide motion in public.

I'm afraid that if we move in camera, it's all going to be dealt with there. This committee has done a great job, compared to some of the other ones—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

No. That's—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

—of dealing with everything on the record.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

That's what I'm trying to do, but we have a motion on the floor.

Mr. Davies is proposing that we pass the subcommittee report as it is. There is one thing on issue 4. We called for the minister to be here today, and she couldn't be here. Other than that, it outlines the work plan and everything for the future.

Is there any debate on Mr. Davies' motion about passing the subcommittee report?

Seeing no—

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Could we have a moment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Yes. We will take a moment.

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Could you ask the question again?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Is there any debate on Mr. Davies' motion? I see none.

All those in favour of passing the subcommittee report as is, please so indicate.

(Motion negatived)

The motion fails.

Now we go to Mr. Eyolfson's motion to go in camera.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I move we go in camera for discussion of committee business at this point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Is there any debate?

Go ahead, Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

This committee adopted a practice at the very beginning of our committee deliberations, in our standing orders, to have committee business dealt with in public, except in a couple of specific situations in which it's appropriate to go in camera. Those are when we're discussing specific witnesses or when there's an issue of a potentially confidential nature.

We agreed at this committee not to go in camera when we're simply discussing committee business as such. That is what we're going to be talking about, so I'm curious. If Doug has a specific reason, and if one of those exceptions applies, I'd certainly be open to hearing it, but it's not the practice of this committee to go in camera simply to discuss committee business.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

The intention was to go in camera when I walked in the door, because I thought we'd probably be discussing witnesses for the pornographic study and so on.

Anyway, the clerk just told me that this motion is not debatable, so we have to go to a vote.

All in favour of—

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'm not a regular member of this committee, but I've had the distinct pleasure of sitting on several committees of the House. I sat on the foreign affairs committee, which deals with far more egregious things.

This committee has always dealt with things openly, according to the transcripts, which I have read. Why can't you deal with the motion?

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

What's your point of order?

[John Oliver, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

This is not a point of order.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

This motion, which was moved at committee on December 13, should not be dealt with in camera; it should be dealt with on the record, so that the public can be aware.