Evidence of meeting #50 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was parents.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Executive Officer, Developmental and Forensic Pediatrics
That's right. That's Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, and if you kill a sex worker, you get a special prize.
Chief Executive Officer, Developmental and Forensic Pediatrics
You get a special prize by killing a sex worker and killing a police officer.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
That's right, yes, which I thought kind of odd in what the label would suggest is just a game about driving cars. Obviously, it's not.
Is there research that goes in with this that shows the effects of the mainstreaming of these attitudes and how it relates? Is there any correlation between what's going on in the mainstream and whether this may be influencing what's going on with Internet porn, or the other way around?
Chief Executive Officer, Developmental and Forensic Pediatrics
Yes. There is a great deal of research, in fact. What we know is that the media to which our children and adults are exposed profoundly affect attitudes over time. The American Psychological Association has published an excellent task force report on the sexualization of girls. You can download it from the Internet.
In the second edition in 2010—and the U.K. has a similar report—it talks about the sexualization of children and how, when you sexualize children, what happens to the children is that they begin to see their only value in their sexuality. The term that the APA uses is “sexual self-objectification”. It's “I see myself as an object. You can use me or abuse me. I don't really deserve your love, care, tenderness, etc.. I've come to objectify myself.” That is a public health issue that two different countries already have written specific large task force reports about.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
All right, thank you.
Dr. Dines, some controversy has come up in some of the testimony we've had from other researchers. There was some research where they looked at behaviour patterns of those who commit sexual offences and their viewing habits. There has been an argument of—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
Excuse me, Dr. Eyolfson. The bells are ringing, and I need unanimous consent to continue on our committee.
Do I have unanimous consent to continue on?
Liberal
John Oliver Liberal Oakville, ON
I suggest that Dr. Eyolfson finish his questioning, and then we adjourn to get to the House.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
We have two five-minute questions, one three-minute question, and the rest of Dr. Eyolfson's question.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Can we finish that round and still make it over here, do you think?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
That's up to the committee. I'm not going to say you can get there or not. We have 29 minutes and 19 seconds.
What is the wish of Mr. Davies?
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Dr. Dines, how do we address this question that comes up about correlation versus cause and effect, as some have suggested, the fact that some who undertake this deviant behaviour and view pornography aren't doing it because of the pornography, that it's more a coexistent interest, as it were?
President, Culture Reframed
I'm a sociologist, and I start from the assumption that men are not born johns, rapists, and murderers. I speak about that from sociological research. I speak about that as a feminist. I speak about that as the mother of a son. We have to accept that men are perpetrating the vast majority of violence against women and children. Is this a biological mix-up in masculinity, or is there something cultural going on? I would argue without doubt that it is something cultural because we do not want to think that men are flawed in their biology.
Because we are seeing increased rates of violence against women and children today, we have to ask, what has happened in the last 10 to 15 years that has shifted profoundly the way that men think about sex and sexuality? The answer to that is pornography. I would argue that if we really want to stop men from doing violence against women, we have to stop saying “boys will be boys” and understand the way in which they are socialized.
We now have longitudinal data; we are following boys to see what happens. Because of what we know from longitudinal data, we can argue that it's not just correlation that men who look at porn are also likely to do violence. It's actually causation. When you use longitudinal data, you're following them through their lifestyle.
I would also argue that we cannot assume that men are born with a desire to do violence against women and children. I believe it is pornography that is playing a profound effect here. Unless we deal with it, we just sell our boys short, and we'll profoundly sell our girls and our women short.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
Thank you to the witnesses for being here. I am going to be very quick with my questions to give you the maximum time to answer.
Dr. Dines, you did bring up some interesting points. Since we are looking at the public health effects of online, violent, and degrading, sexually explicit material.... You mentioned the HPV virus and anal injuries. Do you have actual stats for that, for the public health?
President, Culture Reframed
Yes. There's a lot of data in the medical journals around what's going on that I'd be happy to send you. In fact, at Culture Reframed, a lot of our team members are doctors, so we can certainly send you the medical literature on that. We know that without doubt, yes.
Conservative
Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON
I'd like to finish up with a question that is a kind of follow-up to what my colleague said. I believe Madam Anderson had a chance to answer, but neither you nor Madam Cooper was able to answer. Because we'll be coming up...we're trying to make a difference. We're looking for solutions and meaningful changes.
Should we do anything? Can we do anything? Do we need to do anything? Maybe you could give us some ideas so that we can look at a solution and at meaningful change.
Dr. Dines, could you start?
