Health Committee on May 4th, 2017

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Doherty. I think this is so well received by everyone because it is a very worthwhile thing.

In my profession, I know we deal with it on two ends. First of all, physicians are the ones who are often called upon to treat this, but what is not always appreciated as well is that health care professionals are in fact the victims of this as well—both physicians and nurses. When I was in residency, my medical school had three suicides in a 15-month period, so we're familiar with it. One of the things we had noticed was that we hadn't actually had a lot of instruction in this. It wasn't part of our curriculum, and like in many other professions, you have senior members who don't believe it's a thing. Why are these people troubled? They're not our patients. We are only supposed to treat patients. Physician, heal thyself. I said this in another meeting, that I believe there's a special place in hell for whoever wrote the phrase, “Physician, heal thyself”.

Among the stakeholders you spoke to, these medical professionals, was there any talk about how this might lead to changes in curriculum and instruction of physicians in how to deal with this?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

One could only hope. That is part of this, too. I think we must educate society. How do we do that? We do that by talking, by collaborating, by sharing stories, sharing best practices. I've heard that, shockingly, even recently, and I've heard it from leadership within some of our first responder industry, that people should know what they're getting themselves into when they sign their contract and that this is going to lead to more people booking off sick or claiming that they have PTSD.

As I mentioned earlier on, I worked for a time at crisis and counselling, and teaching suicide prevention, and that was at a time when nobody even wanted to mention the word “suicide”, for fear that it would enable copycats. It was also at a time when the medical profession was quick to simply prescribe medication and not really look at the root causes of what the issues were. I would like to think that we've gotten better all these years later, but as my colleague has mentioned, sadly, I think we've probably stagnated a little bit. We're getting better at understanding, knowing, and being aware of challenges, but I think we insulate ourselves a little bit.

My hope is that, through this conversation and ultimately through the national framework, we provide education for all, including our medical profession, on how best to diagnose, even within.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

In regard to society, I agree that it's a subject people are not comfortable with. They're often critical of those who do it. In regard to addressing this as a whole society, we know there are many faith groups that still have a tremendous stigma against it. Shockingly, there are still faith groups that will refuse to perform a religious service—a burial—for someone who has taken their own life.

In regard to public awareness, have you, among the stakeholders, engaged with any faith groups to help decrease the stigma among the public?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I've engaged with the interfaith groups within my region. They're very well aware of my bill. Have I engaged with interfaith groups about how to reduce the stigma within their population or community? No, I haven't. I can tell you that across the broad spectrum of interfaith groups within my region, and that is pretty diverse, what we're doing is widely celebrated.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you very much. I have no further questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Thank you very much.

We'll turn to Mr. Davies for the last question.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Doherty, you have eloquently expressed the emotional pain, the fog, and the profound need for this, and I want to thank you for that. As well, you have described the basis for a bill in emotionally affecting terms in a way that I have rarely heard in Parliament. I want to thank you for that.

To make your bill as comprehensive as it can be, I want to finish my question by just adding my final suggestion to it and to get your thoughts on it. Refugees coming to Canada, by definition, are people who are fleeing war zones. Just like the combat personnel who are participating, very often, the refugees are civilian victims of that same atrocious violence they're seeing. I'm wondering—again, this is the final ministry I'll put to you—if you could see fit for us to include the minister of immigration and refugees at the table, as well. This is to make sure that the interests of those people who have suffered PTSD from conflict zones might be addressed as well.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Mr. Davies, I'll offer the same answer. I can't speak to, nor do I want to in any way diminish the experiences of those who are fleeing conflict and who are fleeing to Canada for our safe borders and safe haven. My bill was specifically intended to look at our first responders, our military, and our veterans.

Again, this piece of legislation is solely about getting our ministers around the table. It would be up to this committee to decide who they'd like to see there. My challenge is, again, by making it too onerous, do we then...? Is it better to pass a piece of legislation that mandates ministers to get around the table with their colleagues, including academics, and then, at that time, allow them to decide the scope of the framework?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

The reason I ask, Mr. Doherty, is that your bill, basically, is to convene a conference, and you and your bill have drafted the ministers you'd want around the table. There's something you just said that is very important. This bill is described as a bill to create a federal framework on post-traumatic stress disorder.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

With respect to first responders—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

That's my question. It doesn't say that. Is it your intention to restrict the federal framework on PTSD to first responders and veterans? Or do you want to create a federal framework on PTSD so that we can cover all of the major groups including health professionals, women, first nations...?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

The intent of my bill was to specifically look at the federal framework with respect to the first responders, the veterans, and our military.

Since tabling the bill and having the conversations that we've had with other groups, it has always been my message that it would be my hope that, by passing this legislation and getting those ministers mentioned in the bill, they can convene a meeting, including whomever they would like at that time, and then develop that framework as they see fit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Time is up.

That concludes our session, Mr. Doherty. It sounds like you've been on quite a journey. If I read the committee right, I think you've made a little progress on your journey today. The committee will be having other hearings with witnesses, and you're welcome to attend at any time and help us in any way.

With that, I'm going to call a short break and then we're going to move to Bill S-211, the sickle cell bill. We'll take a quick break and be right back.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

We'll reconvene and begin.

I noticed that Mr. Fisher is in the audience. I don't know if he wants to say anything. He's a proponent for Bill S-211, which we're going to consider clause by clause. We have no witnesses. We have no discussion. We're going to move right to clause-by-clause.

Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1, the short title, and the preamble is postponed. We'll move to that later.

(Clauses 2 and 3 agreed to)

Shall the short title carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Shall the preamble carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Shall the title carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Shall the bill carry?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Shall the chair report the bill to the House unamended?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

That's it. We're done with this. Now we refer this to our legal expert here to finish up. That is Bill S-211.

Congratulations, Mr. Fisher. It was a tough battle, but we got it through.

[Voices]

Hear, hear!