Evidence of meeting #53 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was program.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Before going to our international witnesses, according to your knowledge, where have the thalidomide syndrome or effects been diagnosed across the world and in how many countries?
Executive Director, Health Programs and Strategic Initiatives, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health
Thalidomide was distributed in more than 46 countries worldwide. It was developed in Germany and they did testing in 1953-54. To the best of my knowledge, the drug became available in 1957—which is the year I was born, just FYI, so I'm in the same generation. It came to Canada in 1959, but it was variable in Europe and other countries in the late fifties and early sixties.
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you, Mrs. Moriarty.
Mr. Johnson, do you have complementary answers to my question? Maybe he didn't get it at all. Did you get translation on the other end?
Actually, they don't hear me at all and I don't know sign language.
Former Director of the United Kingdom Thalidomide Trust, As an Individual
Yes, I can, but you've gone fairly quiet at this end. I don't know what's happened with the audio, but the audio level seems to have dropped.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bill Casey
Generally speaking, we're not a quiet group.
Could you repeat, Mr. Nantel?
NDP
Pierre Nantel NDP Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC
Thank you.
Dr. Johnson, I'm no specialist in health issues like this, but after six years of being in Parliament, one of the most immediate solutions that comes to mind is to ask what other countries done. I was asking Ms. Moriarty about what she referred to as other countries' actions. What have other countries done to solve the issue and help these patients?
Former Director of the United Kingdom Thalidomide Trust, As an Individual
To the best of my knowledge, they have all found a clinical medical expert with long experience in the particular subject. Austria has recently established a scheme, with a government panel advised by a professor of genetics, and the Germans have their Contergan Foundation, which uses Dr. Jurgen Graf. We consulted Dr. Graf, but he doesn't like delivering legal documents in English because it's a little bit outside his language skills. However, he gives his expertise.
In their recent settlements, the Australians used Professor Janet McCredie, with one other, I think.
Brazilians have a government panel set up, advised by Professor Lavinia Schuler-Faccini. Their situation is different, since thalidomide is still available in Brazil and there are still babies being born. I think the most recent that I heard of was in 2012. She described it to the WHO meeting, about trekking through the jungle to identify cases to track down the prescription and where the drug had come from.
Former Director of the United Kingdom Thalidomide Trust, As an Individual
Around the world, there is still a lot of current experience. What's happening, as in the U.K., is that the long-established expert is transferring the knowledge and training up an apprentice. However, to be an apprentice in this, you seem to be a professor of genetics to start with, or something of that order.
I think there is a trend towards bringing in the geneticists now, rather than the orthopaedic specialists, because there are, as Dr. Vargesson said, a number of genetic phenocopies of thalidomide—that is, genetic disorders that produce the same results. In saying that, most of what we dealt with were inquiries from people whose condition was very different from the normal thalidomide pattern. Our usual response to those people was that if they could produce evidence of their mother ingesting the drug, we would look at it. However, we're referring back to all the old reports from where it was known that mothers had taken the drug—that was definitely evidenced—and how their babies came out. None of those would have had transverse or unilateral reductions.
There are patterns, so you need a clinician with expertise, and that's what's happening in the different countries around the world.
Former Director of the United Kingdom Thalidomide Trust, As an Individual
I think the person who you took on in the late sixties and early seventies who advised on a lot of Canadian cases was Dr. Newman. He told me he had spent time in Canada looking at your cases for you. I don't know how many, but he has certainly been around.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses for their presentations.
Regarding the Thalidomide Survivors Contribution Program, there are still 167 individuals whose applications were rejected because they didn't meet the eligibility criteria. What are the chances that there are thalidomide victims among those 167 individuals? Do you have any idea?
Vice-President, Class Action Services, Crawford
We're not qualified to make a determination like that. That's not our role in the process. Also, similar to what other people have said, I'm neither a medical doctor, a scientist, nor an expert in this field so it would be—
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
You determine whether the applicant meets the three criteria. If so, you consider the applicant a victim, and the applicant can obtain compensation. However, if the person doesn't meet the three criteria, the person's application is rejected and you don't ask further questions.
Is that how Crawford administers the program?
Project Manager, Thalidomide Survivor Compensation Program, Crawford
When people submitted their applications, we would write to them if the proof was not sufficient as defined in the program. Sometimes we would speak with them and review the material they presented, and try to help them think of other avenues they could pursue to try to help them meet the criteria. Ultimately, the criteria were defined and—
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
From what I understand, you provide some guidance. There are still 167 individuals who don't meet the criteria.
Since thalidomide, have other drugs or medications had similar effects, according to the research conducted by your company?
I'll also ask Health Canada to answer this question. Do you know of other drugs that had similar effects and that were removed from the market?
Vice-President, Class Action Services, Crawford
On behalf of Crawford, we have no knowledge of that.
Executive Director, Health Programs and Strategic Initiatives, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health
I don't have any specific knowledge. It's outside my area of expertise.
I know other drugs were used to treat nausea in pregnant women, but they didn't necessarily have the same effects.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
If you can't answer me right now, I would appreciate an answer later, if possible. You can ask your Health Canada colleagues.
Since the thalidomide case, has Health Canada changed the way drugs are approved for Canadians?
Executive Director, Health Programs and Strategic Initiatives, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health
Yes.
Executive Director, Health Programs and Strategic Initiatives, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Health
Absolutely.
To my knowledge, thalidomide was, as we say in English, a watershed moment for drug approval.
All regulations, the drug approval process and the clinical trials—
Sorry. I don't know the specific French vocabulary.