Evidence of meeting #54 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was criteria.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:30 a.m.
Liberal
John Oliver Liberal Oakville, ON
Okay.
In terms of my earlier question, Dr. Edwards, if you were to give direct advice to the committee or that we could pass forward, it sounds like there is a limited cluster of like conditions that would qualify people if they don't have records. With a genetic screening test to confirm their cause, do you think that is sufficient to deal with the unrecognized group? Or do you feel that's inadequate?
11:30 a.m.
Professor in Medicine, As an Individual
It won't really deal with the unrecognized group. As I said, the hard evidence tells us that the extreme limb reduction, the deformities, and the deafness stand out as things known to be caused by the drug. The rest is speculative. We have other possible causes—as I said, the genetic causes in particular and the other embryopathic drugs that we ought to take into account.
11:30 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank you for your leadership on this issue and the committee for undertaking this study.
Thank you to our witnesses for their presentations today.
I also want to say that I am very encouraged that Mr. Oliver told us that he would rather see us be more inclusive than work to exclude people. I know that Crawford's directive was quite clear in terms of the criteria.
Unfortunately, Mr. Bolton and Mr. Levesque, you were unable to meet the criteria. When we come up with some recommendations coming out of this study, I think we should recommend to the minister to direct Crawford to be more inclusive, with the opportunity to try to include people such as you, who have had challenges in finding the documents to meet the criteria.
Mr. Bolton, I understand from your presentation that you have missing documents. You've told me this a number of times, so obviously that's correct. Can you describe what you were able to find and what you were able to present to Crawford?
11:35 a.m.
Founding Member, Canada's Still Forgotten Thalidomide Survivors
I was able to present Crawford a photocopy. I still have the hard copy with me right now. It is right from the registry at Kingston's Hotel Dieu Hospital. It states right on there that I was born with a deformed left arm and an extra digit that was removed right at birth. I still have the scar.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
We heard from Mr. Johnson the other day at a previous meeting on this study that if thalidomide was present and available in certain areas and if a mother took it during that period of time, there was a high degree of confidence that it could be the cause of phocomelia and other health challenges like those you've been facing over the years. I was quite happy that this was in fact his view.
To me, the real issue is that Crawford is hamstrung because the directive from the government is to meet the criteria. If this committee makes a recommendation to the minister to direct Health Canada—and then by extension Crawford—to undertake in-person interviews and examinations.... I think that's what your group has been asking for. As you know, I've met with your group. You had about 15 or 20 members come to Ottawa in October. That was exactly what they were asking for. Is that correct?
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
One of the questions would be, first of all, have you had a genetic test?
11:35 a.m.
Founding Member, Canada's Still Forgotten Thalidomide Survivors
No. As of yet, I have not.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Would you be willing to submit to that?
11:35 a.m.
Founding Member, Canada's Still Forgotten Thalidomide Survivors
If I could come up with the money to afford it, yes, I would be more than happy to have a genetic test.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Okay. In your view, how should the criteria be changed so they would be more inclusive of the people who are, as we clearly have heard with a high degree of confidence, victims of thalidomide? How do you think those criteria should be changed by Health Canada?
11:35 a.m.
Founding Member, Canada's Still Forgotten Thalidomide Survivors
For the criteria, they can leave the three pre-existing ones—everybody knows that we're not going to make those anyway—but they need to include another one, because when we were first given this package, they told us that if we didn't meet the first three, there was a condition five, where, if we submitted our medical evidence, they would take that t into consideration. I don't know if they even looked at it or who looked at it.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
When you were rejected, you were given an opportunity to reapply, but with no change in the criteria, that was really a moot point.
11:35 a.m.
Founding Member, Canada's Still Forgotten Thalidomide Survivors
Yes. When I phoned Brenda Weiss from Crawford to inquire about my rejection letter and its saying that it was deemed final, she suggested that I go to my previous family doctor, who is now in Oshawa, and try to get him to sign an affidavit that he saw something in my records stating that there was thalidomide exposure. If my records were destroyed in 1975 in that fire, there wouldn't have been anything in there anyway.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Right. In fact, Mr. Bolton, I remember that fire at the pharmacy and the one at Dr. Miller's at the time.
11:35 a.m.
Founding Member, Canada's Still Forgotten Thalidomide Survivors
Yes, Dr. Miller.
11:35 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
I can attest that those fires in fact happened.
Mr. Levesque, do you have any views on the challenges you faced dealing with Crawford?
11:35 a.m.
As an Individual
On dealing with Crawford, they just kept coming back with the three criteria. They said that if I could get a letter from a doctor.... Well, most doctors are retired. The one doctor I did speak to said that when he started his practice in Sudbury, he received a sample of thalidomide from a distributor in 1964. With doctors being old school, and with the technology back then, a lot of them didn't get the message.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
They were not offering an opportunity to have an in-person interview. Basically, it was a final decision, and unless you could meet the criteria, there was no opportunity to continue with your claim.
11:40 a.m.
As an Individual
That's correct.
When I submitted a sworn affidavit from my mother, they said it wasn't good enough. Even though it was part of the criteria in 1991, it was not good enough for today's day and age, because it's only the three criteria that are set out today.
11:40 a.m.
Conservative
Gord Brown Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
Right, so it simply rests on the Minister of Health giving Crawford the directive to make this more inclusive.
11:40 a.m.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for being here.
Mr. Bolton, I want to start with you. Mr. Levesque I think already made a reference to the potential number of claimants, of forgotten survivors. Do you have view on this as to how we can help put some shape on how many people in Canada we're talking about who are likely thalidomide survivors but who have not received compensation? Do you have any idea of how many people that might be?
