Health Committee on Sept. 14th, 2017

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Also, I want to thank the panel for being here today, but again, it emphasizes my frustration that we have such a short period of time with you. I have a lot of questions, but I only have time for a few.

I'm thinking about the 289 days. We've had the advantage of Colorado and Washington in front of us, which have said that to be successful, before you come to the date when you implement, you should have proper education—or in other words, in your case, very important culturally appropriate education—and prevention measures and data collection. You should be working on baseline now and then figuring out how to collect this moving forward. On treatment, you should know how to get especially our kids into treatment, and there's also the research.

What I found very disturbing from your testimony is that it appears that the federal government hasn't reached out through other levels of government to get any of this in place, and we have 289 days. For me, when we see some of the Liberal members criticize other levels of government and law enforcement for not being ready yet, they've had two years to get this in place.... I'm very much concerned, but again, I have a lot of questions, and I would like to talk to you about probably some of the more difficult, controversial things.

Chief Day, you brought up something that no other panellist has brought up about the autonomy and the unique circumstances of some of your communities. You brought up this idea of dry communities. I was wondering if you could explain the rationale for this a bit, but also, because I probably won't have time to ask you again, maybe you can fit in this next part that I think is really important, because this legislation obviously doesn't allow for the necessary autonomy you need. If you could get one thing into this legislation, what would you like to see?

Those are the two things. First, could you talk to me about the controversial...about dry communities? Nobody has brought that up. I want to put you on the spot for that. Also, what would you like to see? Because if they're going to do it this way, we want to make it the best legislation we can to protect the health and safety of our kids. What we learned from Colorado and Washington—and Chief Day was right on it—is that organized crime targets youth. We want to make sure that this is the best legislation we can get. I'll shut up there and let you speak, Chief Day.

[Chief Isadore Day]

With respect to the issue of autonomy, I think that for the federal government having Minister Jane Philpott moving over to INAC now is a good move. She and I have worked considerably well together in the last couple of years, and that's why we've seen some off budget cycle investments. We've seen really good work come from her shop, and I'm so glad that I have an opportunity to work with her.

When it comes to first nations health transformation, look at what's happened here in the last year or so with regard to the health accord in Canada. The federal government had to deal and negotiate specifically with the regions across the country. Manitoba was the last holdout, but finally there was an agreement. For first nations, we have been pushing on health transformation, because we have issues of autonomy. We have health governance issues, capacity issues, and systemic issues.

To answer your question, what I would want to see in the legislation going forward is that the first nations health transformation agenda be considerably recognized and that components within the legislation build on the principle that there is a first nations health crisis that has been here for decades and it's going to take years for the federal government and first nations to fix that. Health transformation for first nations is going to be a much deeper exercise, and I think the legislation needs to recognize that.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Could you comment on the dry communities?

[Chief Isadore Day]

The dry community piece is there. In many cases, it's there for good reason. If you don't have the proper health care system, proper social programs, or infrastructure, to add alcohol into a community is like adding fuel to a fire. In many cases, as you know, not because of any of the moral aspects.... I want to be clear about that. This is not a moral issue. This is an issue of the human right to health. First nations do not have access to the human right to health in a substantive way in our communities. Therefore, alcohol and drugs make things worse. Communities say, “Because we have the ability, we want a dry community, because we don't want our community to hurt any further.”

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Can the federal government force you to, because of these mail orders...? They've said that if you're not ready, there'll be mail order. What would you think of that situation?

[Chief Isadore Day]

That's a jurisdictional grey area. This is why we need to look at the first nations health transformation piece very closely, and it's why we need a bilateral table. This committee should strongly recommend that any preparatory work or capacity front-end loading in terms of getting us ready should be done. We turn to the committee for support on that.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Can we hear a comment from the Métis council?

[Wenda Watteyne]

From the Métis nation perspective, I think one of the things that would be a huge benefit is explicit recognition of the Métis nation, and perhaps other levels of first nations and Inuit governments as well. Explicit recognition and inclusion in the legislation would be an important step that will define how we work with the Government of Canada, and perhaps will provide a greater safeguard that resources will be provided and that we will work in collaboration. I think it just provides much more assurance and spells out a way that we can work together, as opposed to being an afterthought or just not having adequate consultation and engagement. I think that would be a real strength.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

That's it. Thanks very much.

Mr. Ayoub.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here. It is very important for us to hear what you have to say. Like all the other witnesses, you raise some very interesting points.

First of all, could you please comment on your relationship with the federal government in the past two years, particularly with respect to health, and on communications with the federal government since the change of government?

How would you describe these relationships? Do you think they have been increasing, open, closed or progressive?

[Chief Isadore Day]

On our relationship with or impression of the current government, I'll speak specifically to the health file, because this is a multi-faceted issue. Cannabis is legal. It's social—

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I want the big picture.

[Chief Isadore Day]

The big picture?

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I want the big picture, to see what the relationship is now.

[Chief Isadore Day]

Our relationship is at a crossroads right now. We know that the federal government has made substantial commitments. There has been a setting of the table, if you will, but we've not yet experienced the full-meal deal from the federal government. It's really important to recognize that time is of the essence. We cannot be strung along and provided commitments on certain things but not be afforded the resources and the opportunity to help shape the process from the front end and not from halfway down the road. Our challenges are quite deep. We have capacity in our communities to know what our issues are. Oftentimes the federal government going forward on, say, law and policy review will basically shape and shift the process, and we're not at the front end.

We understand, sir, that we're not part of the federal family, but we are the neighbours next door, who've been here since time immemorial. We should be participatory in all parts of the process at the front end. For example, in setting out this legislation, we need to have the resources available. We need to have the ability to help shape how the draft legislation will be done, to have co-development of legislation. I think the federal government is beginning to—

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have only five minutes, so if you could get to the answer—

[Chief Isadore Day]

I think the federal government is getting there, but there's more work to be done.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

Perhaps the Métis could answer now.

[Clara Morin Dal Col]

I'll refer back to the accord we signed with the federal government. We've been working really well with this government, with growth and openness, especially after the Daniels decision and the commitment set forward to work nation to nation, government to government, in terms of the relationship between Canada and the Métis nation under this new accord. We have co-committed to advancing a range of priorities for the Métis, which we've never had before.

So it's been working really well for us in moving a lot of these initiatives forward, especially in health.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Your answers, particularly Chief Day's, tell us that there is a lot of work to be done, even though the relationship with the Métis is going well.

Moreover, the situation can't change completely overnight. There is a lot of work to be done. Time is an important factor, and we can't make amends for what wasn't done in the past. We can only move forward and make changes for the future.

In the case of health, cannabis is one aspect and a cornerstone of legislation that will change. Communication, information sharing, assistance and support are important.

What efforts have you made to communicate with your people? We're talking about local public meetings, I've held them myself. We are talking about money and financial aid, but consulting people didn't cost me much money. As a member of Parliament, I have been able to hold town hall meetings and I can hold others; it's quite simple.

We can listen to our people, find out their concerns and deal with them. I would like to know what you have done on your side over the last two years, knowing that the legalization of cannabis was coming.

[Chief Isadore Day]

Thank you, sir. I'll answer very quickly.

We have been doing work. I must say that on one side that's a fair question, and on the other side it's a red herring. You do need resources to actually go deeper into issues and impacts of cannabis. If you lived in one of our northern communities for two weeks, I think you'd have a very different opinion around the ability to consult.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I don't have any opinion and I don't have any judgment. I just want the facts.

[Chief Isadore Day]

Okay.

That was my first point. Second, we have the Thunderbird Partnership Foundation. I'll leave the document for the committee. It has already begun to lay out some of the initial discussion points and questions. There are questions here, “8. Key considerations for indigenous communities”. I won't read them into the record, but they're here.

There is the ability for us to begin that work, but it's a much, much deeper discussion that does require resources and collaboration with the federal government.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Thank you very much.

Now we're going to Mr. Webber.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here. I'm pleased that you were included as part of this health committee study. I'm a little disappointed that you feel you weren't included in the task force deliberations.

One thing I do want to say, though, is that as the aboriginal relations minister of Alberta for a number of years, I had the honour and the pleasure of working both with your first nations communities and with your Métis communities. I can tell you that I know what challenges face both of your communities. I wish and hope that the future will be brighter for the indigenous communities, including the Inuit communities, which are not represented here today and likely were not represented at the task force hearings either—I don't know.

In any event, one thing that has not been brought up yet today is the inclusion in the bill of the opportunity for Canadians to cultivate at home up to four plants. What are your thoughts on that and how it affects your communities?

I'll start with Chief Day.