Health Committee on Sept. 15th, 2017

[Dana Larsen]

It's sort of halfway between those things. We strive for a professional product, but it's very difficult to access mainstream bakeries or places to make products if you're going to be making cannabis products. As a result, we are forced into this kind of area where they're made at home or on a small scale. We use childproof packaging. We do our best to label our products with an accurate level of the cannabinoids that are in there, although that's a challenge, simply because of the testing available and because dispensaries can't fully access that kind of testing.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

What do you think of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Your time is up.

Dr. Carrie.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be sharing my time with my colleague.

Again, Mr. Larsen, I'd like to direct this question to you, and again, thanks for being here. Obviously you're very knowledgeable, and I would think that your input and your knowledge about how things are today in Canada on the ground are very important.

I'm curious. As far as you or anybody involved in the production/distribution field goes, was anyone you know consulted in reference to the rollout of this as a public policy or the drafting of this bill? Was any consultation done by the government with anybody you know?

[Dana Larsen]

No. Do you mean the task force that was initially put together and that kind of thing? Some people were. I wasn't invited to speak to that task force. Some of my allies or friends were, but I found that just regular cannabis users aren't really in part of this discussion so much. I use cannabis every day. I used cannabis this morning before I came here, and I'm going to use some afterwards when we're done. I think that voice of the typical users is perhaps missing.

No, I haven't seen a lot of consultation among the cannabis community in that way.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I'd like to move:

That, pursuant to standing order 108(2), a minimum of 6 meetings be added to the committee's current study of Bill C-45, (An Act respecting cannabis and to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, the Criminal Code and other Acts), and that these meetings be scheduled following the appearance of the Minister of Health, Justice and Public Safety on the week of September 18th.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Dr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I move that the debate be now adjourned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

We now have a vote on that issue.

We're going to have a vote on Dr. Eyolfson's motion.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I'd like a recorded vote, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

All those in favour of the motion to adjourn debate?

(Motion agreed to: yeas 5; nays 4)

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

The motion has succeeded, so we've adjourned the debate on that issue. We'll go back to the regular one.

You have a minute and a half to go.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

All right.

Mr. Vigil, will childproof packaging keep 12- to 17-year-olds from being able to open those packages?

[Dr. Daniel Vigil]

Absolutely not. No.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

So it's absolutely no protection at all.

What kind of recommendations would you have? We're trying with this bill to keep cannabis out of the hands of young children. The concern is that when people bring edibles into the house, they are attractive. They're candies or cookies or suckers, all the things that kids would want to have.

In light of the overdose situations we saw in Colorado, should people be locking them up?

[Dr. Daniel Vigil]

Yes, I think they should. As far as regulation is concerned, we don't regulate to that degree for products that people bring home. There is regulation that for home-grows they have to be locked in a locked area if anyone under 21 is in the home. Really, within that age range it becomes much more important to have education for parents and others who care for children, or who have children around, that if they're using these products, they should keep them locked up. Then, of course, there's the education for children about the possible dangers of using them.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Very good.

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

You have 28 seconds.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I'll just end with a comment then.

Mr. Larsen, with all due respect, I find your lack of respect for the rule of law in this country disturbing. It's clear that it doesn't matter what we come up with in Bill C-45. You're going to do whatever you like and obey whichever laws you like, and I don't personally approve of that.

Thank you.

[Dana Larsen]

I believe in the Charter of Rights.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Now we go to Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Larsen, I want to thank you for being here. You're the only dispensary owner we heard from, out of all the witnesses we heard this week—the only person involved in the actual edible market and familiar with the products on a day-to-day commercial basis. I think it's very valuable to have your perspective here.

First, Mr. Larsen, if we don't legalize edibles, there will be no way to test the THC levels, the CBD levels, and all the other different compounds. Products will still be consumed by Canadians, it appears to me, who will have no real assurance of the content, since, as you said, you can't send these products to accredited Health Canada labs to make sure that these products are what they say they are.

Am I missing something there?

[Dana Larsen]

No, that's all accurate.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Okay.

You mentioned the issue of decriminalizing now. Have you faced any legal charges, or have people who are patronizing your store faced any criminal enforcement actions against them? If not, how has the current criminalized environment affected you and the customers who come into your store?

[Dana Larsen]

Vancouver has had a more progressive attitude towards cannabis for quite awhile. Possession arrests are very, very rare in Vancouver compared with other jurisdictions. You'll be hearing from Hilary Black, who started Vancouver's first dispensary. That was about 20 years ago. We opened ours in 2008. We were the third one in the city. Now there are quite a few.

In Vancouver I've been breaking cannabis laws every day for pretty much all my life. The first time I was ever charged was for giving away low-THC cannabis seeds in Calgary last year. It really varies by jurisdiction. What we enjoy in Vancouver is certainly not the same as the rest of the country. The further north you go in Canada, the rate of possession and trafficking charges increases drastically. I believe that's largely because our first nations population also increases drastically the further north you go.

It really varies across the country how these laws are enforced, which is another example of how it's not just. I can do something in Vancouver that I can get away with, but if someone in another part of the country did the same thing, they'd find themselves in a very serious legal situation.