Health Committee on Sept. 19th, 2017

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

I'll just re-emphasize that the campaign has begun. It is focused upon social media to start with, because all the statistics indicate this as by far the most effective mechanism for reaching young people.

The work is ongoing. It will undoubtedly accelerate and be complemented by the work of other organizations, including provincial governments, which in a number of cases have extensive information and educational campaigns in mind with respect both to Bill C-45 and the new regime dealing with cannabis and especially with respect to Bill C-46, which deals with impaired driving. There are some very important private sector organizations, such as MADD or Mothers Against Drunk Driving and the Canadian Automobile Association, that have already been very active in putting important messages, including paid advertising, into the public domain.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I forgot to mention that a working group has been established with provinces and territories to coordinate the public education campaign. Again, working collaboratively with provinces and territories is key, and we appreciate their contribution.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Mr. Davies, you have five minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Minister of Health, following up from your testimony that education and awareness are key, let me note that we received strong testimony about the importance of sound educational material about cannabis that is effectively crafted to reach various target audiences. We heard that one size does not fit all. When asked whether the federal government has been working with the Assembly of First Nations or any other indigenous organizations on developing targeted and culturally appropriate educational materials to roll out in advance of July 1 of next year, or whether it has given indigenous communities any money to do so, Ontario Regional Chief Isadore Day simply responded, no.

Why isn't the federal government engaged in that work with indigenous organizations?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

First of all, I'd have to respond that we've certainly established working relationships with many groups in the community. As you've indicated, one size certainly doesn't fit all.

I would have to get back to you to show the engagement with respect to our first nations communities and our indigenous communities. I'd be more than happy to get back to you with a detailed response showing the outreach that was done.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Minister of Justice, who will be responsible for enforcing Bill C-45 on reserve lands and band lands?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

There's an opportunity on reserves, if the community is still under the Indian Act, for communities to put in place a bylaw, if they're desirous of having a dry community. If they're still under the Indian Act or have a self-governing arrangement, it depends upon what provisions or agreements they have made whether it would be under provincial jurisdiction or whether there would have to be further discussions involving the RCMP. Where there are self-governing communities, there are agreements in many circumstances with provincial bodies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

This is the last time I quote Chief Day, I promise. He said:

That's one of the outstanding questions we have that is going to really determine whether we state we're ready or not.

I have to tell you that most communities are very nervous right now about, in fact, not being able to enforce their own laws or even the federal-provincial laws with respect to medical and recreational cannabis.

He says, “I think it's highly irresponsible of the federal government to not be able to answer that question”.

I would suggest that the federal government engage the first nations a little bit more carefully on this, because there seems to be great confusion about who will be enforcing this law on band lands.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I appreciate your bringing this up. I know Regional Chief Day and recognize that he is fully committed to wanting to move forward and rebuild governance, moving beyond the Indian Act. This is an opportunity that we all have across party lines to support indigenous communities in rebuilding their institutions of government beyond the Indian Act, so that the clarity that does not exist right now is achieved.

I call on you, my colleague across the way, and everybody to assist in rebuilding communities. That's what our Prime Minister is committed to, and it's what we're moving forward to.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

We'll try.

My last question will be this. We've heard repeatedly that the market is 100% organized crime. The evidence is that it's actually not. We heard from Dr. Neil Boyd, a criminologist from SFU, that a 2011 Department of Justice study found that 95% of cannabis trafficking offenders had no link to organized crime or street gangs whatsoever. We heard other testimony that many of the people who are involved in the production and sale of marijuana are actually folks who are entrepreneurial, non-violent, and have nothing to do with organized crime.

The question I'm going to direct is about clause 62, which gives power to the minister to refuse an applicant for involvement in production on the basis of a prior cannabis conviction. Professor Boyd argued that involvement in the current illicit trade should not be sufficient to provide a bar to entry, particularly as we try to bring people into the light—from the illicit market into the licit market—unless they have a record of threats or violence or evidence of dishonesty of some type.

Minister, in the absence of these aggravating factors, do you believe that a prior cannabis conviction alone should be sufficient grounds to bar an individual from participating in the new, legal market?

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

I'm going to turn this question over to my colleague, the Minister of Health, who has a comprehensive process in place on exactly what you're talking about.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Whoever wants to answer.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

And I'm going to defer it to Ms. Bogden. How's that?

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Ms. Bogden, is there anybody else you'd like to defer the question to?

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jacqueline Bogden, Assistant Deputy Minister, Cannabis Legalization and Regulation Branch, Department of Health]

In answer to the honourable member's question, as you know I was here before the committee last week and we discussed the extensive requirements that we have in place for the existing system of production of cannabis for medical purposes, which are designed to ensure the integrity of the system and to ensure that it isn't infiltrated by organized crime.

The government will set out what their requirements will be under the new legislation through the regulations. It's aware of those concerns and will take those into consideration, but I think it will want to continue to strike a balance, as it does now, to protect the integrity of the system.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Time's up.

Now we'll go to Mr. McKinnon. I understand you're going to share your time with Mr. Eyolfson.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Absolutely.

[Jody Wilson-Raybould, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to have to leave. It's eight o'clock.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I'm not going to ask you any questions then. Nothing personal, though.

Minister Goodale, you mentioned that the import and export of cannabis is illegal and it will remain illegal. But it occurs to me that with this new regime we are putting in place there will be a whole new source of cannabis in Canada from the legal grow operations—and I guess we should call them legal producers— as well as personal cultivation and so forth. It would seem to me that this will create an opportunity for large-scale diversions to be exported to the United States, for example.

What are the challenges you see for CBSA in relation to interdicting such activities with the new regime going forward?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

The law with respect to the border does not change. It is illegal now to import or export, and it will continue to be illegal. Therefore, we will rely upon the very effective people who work for CBSA to make sure that the law is respected both ways. They will use the technology they have in place, together with the general operations of enforcement that they have been very skilled at. Some of the money that we have announced will help them to augment their procedures and their resources to make sure that the border remains secure.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Do you see that there could be more attempts to export legally grown cannabis?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Regina—Wascana, SK]

Somebody might try, but I would bet on CBSA being the winner in that contest to make sure that the border remains secure. People should not underestimate the determination and diligence of CBSA, in co-operation with law enforcement generally in this country, to make sure that the laws are properly respected. We put an enormous burden on our law enforcement officers, and our border inspection and control officers, to do their jobs, and they will do them well.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you.

Those are my questions.