Evidence of meeting #91 for Health in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was smoking.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
I'd be happy to provide you with that for your information. Meanwhile, could you answer me how, as a consumer I'm going to know whether I'm getting a legitimate product and how law enforcement agencies in my area, which is rife with illicit tobacco products, can identify these visibly?
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
Well, first and foremost, when purchasing legal tobacco products in Canada, we recognize that there's a tax stamp on the product. All of the measures that are in place, when you're buying those products through legitimate areas, go through the process, and those markings are very clear on the products when you purchase tobacco products in Canada legally.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Thank you, Minister, for being here.
Minister, I want to congratulate you on bringing this legislation in. I think it's overdue. I wish that you had brought it in sooner, because we all know that every day we wait, thousands of young Canadians try smoking, and many of them become addicted. We know that 50%, I think is the statistic we heard, of people who start smoking will eventually die of a tobacco-related illness, so every day that we wait is a day that more Canadians are going to ultimately die of this highly addictive product.
My question to you as Minister of Health—and we're the health committee—is, do you agree that nicotine is highly addictive?
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Do you also agree that nicotine, in whatever form it's marketed, is something that we should be taking every step we can to discourage Canadians from using?
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Of course, we all know that nicotine itself is highly addictive. Once people start, no matter how it's ingested, it's very difficult to quit.
I'm glad to hear that you have seen one of the major flaws in this bill. We heard testimony on Monday from a variety of groups who spoke to the promotional advertising of vaping products. Now, we all know that vaping is a purer form of nicotine delivery, but as you just acknowledged, and I think you're right, we don't want Canadians to become addicted to nicotine. The value of the vaping that we heard at this committee in testimony was that it's probably estimated 95% safer than tobacco ingestion, and it's very useful, perhaps, as a harm reduction method, a smoking cessation tool for smokers.
My question to you then is, why did this legislation come forward, almost three years after it was promised, with provisions that would allow tobacco companies to market vaping with promotions and with advertising using billboards, television, radio, Internet, video games, newspapers, corner store windows, bars, text messages, and social media? They could use contests, trips, draws, tickets to concerts and sporting events, which are all directed at people who don't smoke, therefore leading them to be more likely to pick up the habit of vaping and ingesting nicotine. Are they the provisions of this bill that, you in your opening statement, you said we should amend?
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
Absolutely. Again, as health minister, my responsibility is the health and safety of Canadians. My specific priority, when I look at Bill S-5, is also is that I have a bias with respect to youth. I really want to make sure that we keep these products out of the hands of our youth. We also want to prevent our Canadians and our young people from being addicted to nicotine. You're absolutely right. In moving forward, we've been working very hard to ensure that this bill gets through the Senate and also the House to ensure that we can get this to fruition.
With respect to the area of the amendments that I've indicated in my opening statements I absolutely welcome, I welcome an amendment to the area of lifestyle promotion. I, in no way, feel that it should be allowed in the public sphere. We recognize that we need to limit that, because we certainly want to ensure that Canadians are not going to be enticed to start smoking, either our youth or our adults who aren't smokers now.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I was going to get to that, too, because these are all advertisements that could be directed at people in bars. One of the suggestions we heard, if it's really our goal to use e-cigarettes and vaping as a smoking cessation tool directed at smokers and not at the general public to encourage them to pick up nicotine, was to keep the advertising to the cigarette package so that you're delivering the direct message to the smoker every time they buy a pack of cigarettes while eliminating the possibility that vaping marketing will be directed at non-smokers. Would that be something that you would support?
Liberal
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Yes, ban all advertising and promotion of vaping other than on the cigarette packages, if our goal is to direct the message to smokers that vaping exists so that they can use that to maybe pick up vaping as a safer method of ingesting nicotine.
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
The information with respect to promotion and marketing of these types of products is very restrictive.
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
It's still very restrictive. We certainly want to make sure that there are informational types of products that will be available to Canadians, but in no way do we want to encourage.... When we look at the lifestyle amendments that I'm proposing—
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
—we are certainly looking at making sure that information will be very restrictive. It's going to have to be based on science. People are not going to be able to just come up with slogans with respect to that.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
I'm going to move to a different subject, if I could, that of plain packaging. I talked to Nicola Roxon, the former Australian health minister, who told me that tobacco companies are extremely sophisticated and will exploit every single loophole in plain packaging legislation. I'm sure you were told the same.
In the consultation document on the proposed regulations concerning plain packaging, Health Canada did not include the option of further regulating brand names, beyond limiting the number of words that they can contain. Ms. Roxon told me that's something we should look at because we don't want a company to change their name to “Smoking Makes you Slimmer Inc.” or “Smoking Is Sexy Inc.”
Right now the only provisions are to limit the number of words, not the type of advertising that could be used in the company name. Would you be open to such an amendment if that were the case?
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
Certainly. When we look at the issue of plain packaging, there was extremely limited information available and that's allowed on plain packaging as it is right now. We want to make sure that only the name is allowed, but also, as you're well aware, that the information with respect to health warnings and graphics is there.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
What I'm telling you is that the brand names are limited only by the number of words they can contain—the number of words—and not what the words are. It's a potential part on the cigarette package that could be exploited for lifestyle advertising.
Would you be open to us amending that, if that's the case?
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
At this point, as the legislation stands, we would have regulatory authority to make that change.
NDP
Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC
Australia, France, and the U.K. all have plain packaging. Minister, do you have any information about the impact of plain packaging on smoking rates in those countries?
Liberal
Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB
I can say that last year I had the privilege to meet the health minister in France. I was there for the G7 meetings and we had an opportunity to talk about the different health issues in our countries. When we look at obesity rates in Canada, we know that they are very high, but surprisingly, in France, it's very much the opposite.
What she's concerned about are the high smoking rates in their country. They've indicated they've moved forward with respect to the issue of plain packaging and they have seen a decrease in the numbers. Now it's very much in its early stages, but they've already seen a decrease in the numbers when it comes to young people in France with respect to smoking rates.
We are certainly looking at different countries and the work that they're doing. We see that the trend is decreasing. We're following the example of the many countries that have already introduced plain packaging, and we certainly know that it can be effective.
