Health Committee on Feb. 14th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

We'll call our meeting to order. This is meeting number 91. We're here to talk about Bill S-5, an act to amend the Tobacco Act and the Non-smokers’ Health Act.

We certainly welcome the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, the Minister of Health. As additional witnesses, we have Simon Kennedy, Deputy Minister; James Van Loon, Director General, Tobacco Control Directorate; and, Denis Choinière, Director, Tobacco Products Regulatory Office.

We have a short time with the minister and I want to try to make sure that everybody gets their opportunity to ask a question, so I am going to hold everybody to the time limit, which I usually don't do. I'm going to hold everyone to the time limit for answers and questions. Mr. McKinnon and Dr. Eyolfson have agreed to limit their seven-minute times to five minutes so that Mr. Ayoub can have four minutes at the end.

First of all, we have opening statements.

Fire away, Minister. You have 10 minutes.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Once again, I'd like to thank the committee members for inviting me here this evening. I'm very pleased that you are studying this piece of legislation, as it's extremely important. Thank you so much for your hard work.

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to be here this evening to speak about Bill S-5. I want to begin by thanking the committee members for the work they have done to help shape this bill.

Your report entitled “Vaping: Towards a Regulatory Framework for E-cigarettes” highlights the necessity to protect young people from the dangers of nicotine addiction while giving adults smokers access to vaping products as a less harmful nicotine source. Bill S-5 responds to this report’s recommendations; your efforts served to clarify important provisions of the legislation.

Colleagues, the necessity to update existing tobacco legislation is quite obvious. As you know, smoking remains a very concerning public heath issue in Canada. Despite decades of progress, tobacco-related diseases kill 45 000 Canadians each year, or one person every 12 minutes. These statistics are very sobering and, as Minister of Health, I find them unacceptable. As such, our government is trying to reduce smoking rates in Canada from 25% in 2015 to less than 5 % by 2035.

As we work towards this goal, we need to recognize that tobacco use in Canada is changing. Vaping products such as e-cigarettes are becoming more popular. From a public health perspective, we believe this poses both challenges and opportunities.

Bill S-5 strikes the right balance between protecting Canadians and leveraging the potential benefits of vaping products. It also addresses an important need by establishing a new legislative framework for the regulation of these products. This bill is a key element of the government's broader tobacco control agenda, which includes taking further action to ban menthol in tobacco products, implementing plain packaging requirements for tobacco products, and, finally, modernizing Canada's approach to tobacco control.

Since it was introduced, Bill S-5 has been thoroughly examined and amended. Last spring, the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology embarked on a rigorous scrutiny of that legislation. It heard evidence from 22 witnesses representing 15 organizations, including consumer advocates, tobacco and vaping industry representatives, public health experts, academics, and government officials. Their invaluable comments clarified many recent amendments to the Bill under consideration today.

Many experts feel that vaping is a less harmful alternative to smoking. I have heard from Canadians who believe that vaping helped them quit smoking. Nevertheless, we must be cautious. There are risks to consider. Stakeholders have told us that they worry about how vaping products could affect young people. I want you to know that we share their concerns. We must ensure that the availability and prevalence of vaping products does not induce young people and non-smokers to develop nicotine addictions, which could lead them to start smoking.

That is why Bill S-5 would prohibit the sale of vaping products to youth under the age of 18, in line with the current minimum age of tobacco sales. Protecting youth from the dangers of nicotine addiction is a top priority of mine. I share some of the concerns expressed by the Quebec Coalition for Tobacco Control and others, especially regarding lifestyle promotion.

We do not allow lifestyle promotion of tobacco products, and we do not intend to allow it for cannabis products. To protect youth and non-smoking Canadians, I intend to support an amendment that would prohibit all lifestyle promotion of vaping products.

That said, I understand the potential of vaping products as a harm reduction tool. Marketing based solely on factual information will be allowed, with restrictions. For example, there are concerns that certain flavours could potentially make vaping products more appealing to young people. We recognize that some adults prefer flavoured vaping products, but we also know that certain flavours could attract youth to vaping, something that we absolutely want to avoid.

For this reason, Bill S-5 restricts the marketing and promotion of flavours such as candy, which would be appealing to youth. We have already taken significant action when it comes to flavoured tobacco by expanding the ban on menthol to cover 95% of all tobacco products. Bill S-5 was amended to go even further, to ban the use of menthol and clove in all tobacco products. We believe these measures will help protect Canadian youth from the serious, long-term health effects of nicotine addiction and tobacco use.

As I mentioned earlier, Bill S-5 has also advanced our objective of imposing plain and standardized packaging for tobacco products. Thanks to increasingly binding federal directives, the tobacco industry's capacity to attract new smokers, especially among young people, by promoting and advertising tobacco products has greatly decreased. In fact, packaging is one of the last restricted channels in which to do such advertising.

Research shows that promotion through packaging and product design is particularly effective with teenagers and young adults. Coloured packaging that includes logos, textures, and brand names can have a huge impact on young people at a stage of their life when they develop brand loyalty and adopt a smoker’s behaviour.

Conversely, plain packaging was shown to reduce access to tobacco products, especially by young people. Ninety percent of daily adult smokers over the age of 25 smoked their first cigarette before the age of 18. That is why tobacco-control leaders around the world focus on the plain and standardized packaging of tobacco products.

I think that we can all agree that tobacco companies should not be allowed to use packaging to make a harmful product more attractive. It is still important to adopt Bill S-5 in order for Canada to also implement those important and effective tobacco control measures.

In conclusion, Bill S-5 is a well-researched and balanced piece of legislation. It aims to protect young Canadians from developing nicotine addiction and from using tobacco. At the same time, it would allow adults to legally access vaping products as a less harmful alternative to tobacco. In addition, this legislation supports our government's efforts to implement plain and standardized packaging of tobacco products.

Bill S-5 reflects the considered opinions of many stakeholders, including public health experts, industry representatives, consumer advocates, and academics. The results of this strong piece of legislation will allow us to regulate the growing market for vaping products and advance the tobacco control agenda.

Thank you so much for your attention here this evening. I'd be absolutely pleased to take your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

I suspect you'll get some.

We'll start off with Mr. McKinnon.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for joining us here today, and thank you for this great bill.

You mentioned in your remarks, and we heard from many witnesses, some concern about the prohibition on the promotion of flavours for vaping products. You mentioned that we want to be strong about prohibiting these flavours. Could you explain why this measure is important?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Yes, the objectives of Bill S-5 are twofold. First of all, as health minister, my first priority is to protect the health and safety of our youth, and that's moving forward one of the main objectives of this bill. The other objective is to seize the opportunity. We recognize that there are several tobacco smokers right now who are wanting to switch from using tobacco and to transfer to vaping products. We can see that there could be some benefit to that.

We don't want to allow young people to be encouraged to use vaping products. That's why we want to ensure that there are strict regulations in place with respect to marketing and promotion. We don't want them to be enticed by that at all. On the other end of the spectrum, we also recognize that flavoured products, for some Canadians, can help them with kicking the habit of smoking and using vaping as an alternative option.

Going back to the youth, we want to make sure that the actual names of the flavours should not be appealing to youth in any way. For example, I think all kids like cotton candy, and probably some adults do too. We want to make sure these types of names won't be used for the flavours of the product, because, again, that name would be appealing to children.

With respect to the adult population, we want to make sure they have access to the flavours. But at the same time, we need to make sure we strike a balance, that we allow it for adult consumers while not making it appealing to our youth.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

A number of witnesses have claimed that vaping products are safer than tobacco products, and you mentioned this in your remarks. How do we know this? How do we know that vaping products are, in fact, less harmful than tobacco products?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

The research is clear when it comes to tobacco. We know that tobacco kills Canadians. When we look at our annual statistics, we see that we lose 45,000 Canadians per year as a result of tobacco. If we break that down, that's one Canadian dying every 12 minutes as a result of tobacco. We recognize that it's an extreme risk and that the research is there.

Research shows that vaping products are less harmful than tobacco. That being said, it doesn't mean it is without risks. We recognize that if we look at the two substances, we have one that is less harmful than the other. When we look at harm reduction mechanisms, we recognize that vaping products can be a safer alternative than smoking tobacco.

[Ron McKinnon, Liberal, Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bill Casey]

Now we'll go to Ms. Finley.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Minister, thank you for appearing here.

I'm very pleased to hear that you're open to amendments, recognizing that there are alternatives to smoking, that smokers who want to quit may need some help, may need some adjustment. I'm pleased to hear that you're willing to accommodate amendments that will allow this to be known. As the bill stands now, a smoker who wants to look for alternative nicotine products would have no way of finding out about them, because there's no advertising allowed to them, presumably to their doctors, or even to smoking cessation clinics. I think you'd agree that this would not be in the best interest of public health. Would you agree?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Pardon me?

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

If people didn't know about these alternative products, that would not be in the best interest of public health. Do you agree?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Yes.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

We've discussed vaping here today. There are other products that can help, that have proven very popular in the world. In fact, in Japan, non-combustibles, in less than two years, took over 10% of the market for smokers. They're expected to hit almost 20% of the market for smokers by the end of this year.

These products have been demonstrated to be far less harmful to smokers than cigarettes, yet this bill doesn't recognize them and would lump them in with cigarettes. Therefore, they would not be allowed to be advertised either. How do you square that with the improvements in public health and safety that these products could provide?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

With respect to the combustibles, we've made it very clear that tobacco products are tobacco products. The research is very clear that tobacco is very dangerous and kills Canadians. With respect to this piece of legislation that we're bringing forward, we are proposing the same types of requirements for all tobacco products.

With respect to the information that will be available to Canadians with respect to alternatives, we certainly want to make sure that that information is based on science and we certainly want to make sure that if there's appropriate information that's available to be provided to Canadians we absolutely want to make sure that that is going to be allowed. However, it has to be based on science.

We've made a recommendation that if there's any informational type of material that is available Health Canada will certainly look at the information and then from there make the best decision to ensure that that information is factual, based on science, and then that would be provided to Canadians.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Would studies from other countries be acceptable?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

We would certainly look at studies. However, we also have to make sure that those studies are not being sponsored by any type of manufacturer, to make sure that they're based on science and not being influenced by industry.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

We heard on Monday allegations that some of the research was funded and this committee was led to believe that some of the research had been funded by “big tobacco” when, in fact, the people who had done the research said flatly they had not been.

We need to do the research on that, as well, to make sure that you're not being led down the garden path in terms of a bias there. As a smoker, I'd like to know what alternatives are available but this bill won't let me find out.

I have another question for you. Are you familiar with the tobacco contraband market at all?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Yes, I am.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

You are aware of the size and who benefits from that?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I'm not familiar with all the details, but I'm certainly aware of the contraband market.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

It is huge in this country. It's cross-border with the United States business. A lot of the money either comes from, or goes to finance, or is laundered because of illegal activities, things like human trafficking, things like the drug trade, arms trade, with really nasty people.

By going to plain packaging it will be much easier for these actors to present counterfeit or contraband packets of cigarettes. These can be filled with all sorts of nasty chemicals, used animal parts, things that even a smoker shouldn't have to tolerate.

I'm wondering how you think that that will be in the best interests of the smokers, but also whether you have thought of the harm that will come from that if organized crime is allowed to expand as this bill would allow them to do.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

The area of contraband has certainly been researched and has been looked at. There is no evidence that shows that there's a link between plain packaging cigarettes and the increase of the contraband market at all. We have looked at research that's been conducted in Australia, as they've done significant research in this area, and really our bill is very much based on the work that they've done in that country. Once again, through their research they've seen no link that plain packaging has increased the contraband market.

Our government has made investments with respect to RCMP, Public Safety, and also Canada Border Services to ensure that they have access to the tools and the people they need to conduct the investigations in this area. When we look at the research, there is no link between plain packaging and increasing contraband.

[Diane Finley, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Minister, we were presented with a report on Monday that said, in fact, the contraband rate in Australia had gone up by close to 20%, an estimated 20% to 25%, after plain packaging was introduced there. It only stands to reason that when there is no differentiation, as a consumer, I have no idea which product I'm buying. If you go to plain sticks, I have no way of knowing what the product is and law enforcement will have no visible way of recognizing whether these are legitimate products or whether they're illicit.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Once again, information that we've received from the Australian government has made it very clear that they have seen no link between the plain packaging of cigarettes and the area of contraband. That is the information that we've been advised of.