Health Committee on April 22nd, 2020

[Sally Thornton]

I will do my very best. Some of that is not publicly available for disclosure, but most of it is actually throughout public accounts materials, and we'll share that. If I could also just respond to—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm sorry, I have limited time. What would be confidential about the amount of the federal tax dollars that the federal government plans to provide to our national emergency strategic stockpile?

[Sally Thornton]

Nothing is confidential about the amount that is provided. It's all in the public accounts, and we're happy to provide that.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Number two, in 2010 the audit of emergency preparedness and response flagged inadequate record-keeping as a particularly concerning problem with the national emergency strategic stockpile. They said it was unclear how much of the stockpile was up to date and what quantity of the goods had expired. The Globe and Mail quoted that report:

“NESS does not have reliable useful life information for the majority of its supplies stored at the main warehouse, the regional warehouses, or at the pre-positioned sites”...The creation of an electronic database might solve the problem...

Has PHAC created an electronic database to manage the NESS records, and if so, when was that put in place?

[Sally Thornton]

Yes, we have. I'm not quite sure about the date, but a number of our locations are certified under good manufacturing processes, and we have regular audits now.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You don't know when that electronic database was put in place?

[Sally Thornton]

I don't have the dates.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Could you undertake to advise the committee of that as well, please?

The 2010 audited emergency preparedness also questioned whether to stockpile enough of the right supplies for emergency. Again to quote:

...NESS acquisitions in the recent past have also been driven by established budgets and available funds, as opposed to being based on more comprehensive needs analyses.

Has PHAC conducted a comprehensive needs analysis to ensure that NESS contained a sufficient stockpile of supplies necessary to respond to a pandemic outbreak?

[Sally Thornton]

Our focus after that was all hazards but was also primarily geared towards chemical, radiological, biological and nuclear events, and looking at antivirals. That was the priority, that was the mandate, and we were well positioned there.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I think the question was, do you use a comprehensive needs analysis?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Perhaps the witness could just answer the question.

[Sally Thornton]

We use an all-hazards approach in assessment. It's slightly different. We look at the priorities of what's likely and what we would require then.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

That brings round two to a close.

Mr. Paul-Hus, you can start the third round of questions. You have five minutes.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Mr. Tanguy.

A list of 10 essential infrastructure sectors has been drawn up. Minister Blair recently tabled a document in this regard. Among others, the following critical sectors have been identified: finance, health, food and transportation.

Today, various sectors are under cyber-attack. Indeed, personal computer systems, business computer systems and hospital computer systems have been subject to cyber-attacks.

Could you give us an overview of the critical service sectors that have been the hardest hit by the various cyber-attacks?

[Patrick Tanguy]

Thank you for your question.

I'll be able to give you more details on this at a later date.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Okay.

It's important to know quickly where to focus efforts. Could you also give an answer later on the question I asked in the first round, the one about the border and refugee claims? As everyone knows, the Hôtel St-Bernard has been rented for three years. How much does it cost? Have other such facilities been rented in Canada, or is it only in Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle?

I'll now turn to Mr. Wilkins to talk about penitentiaries.

My colleagues have talked about various problems with prisoners. Mr. Stamatakis clearly mentioned that the idea of releasing prisoners into the community was not necessarily a good idea, because there is already a huge effort to be made in terms of population control.

Mr. Wilkins, do you think we should maintain the measure whereby prisoners must be kept indoors, as is done at the Joliette Institution for Women and the Mission Institution, or should the prisoners be released?

[Jeff Wilkins]

There are a lot of pressures coming from a lot of different outside agencies for the release of inmates, but it doesn't solve our problem. The need to protect in place is there. It's not like we can open the doors and let every inmate out. I know that they're looking at inmates who are very close to their parole eligibility or in fact are eligible for day parole, and inmates who pose less significant risk, but it's not going to solve the problem when the virus enters the institutions. I would hope that everybody could understand that this is not the solution to the problem.

The solution to the problem is being able to quarantine quickly, the personal protective equipment, the cleaning of the institutions and the protecting in place. That's essentially what needs to happen.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Health and safety measures can therefore be put in place quickly to avoid releasing prisoners, who would then become a problem for police officers and communities. We agree on that. Even a press release from your union states that it isn't a good idea to release prisoners.

This is for Mr. Stamatakis of the Canadian Police Association, or the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

From the beginning, people have been talking about coordination of all kinds, saying it's a bit complicated. If the Emergencies Act had been applied, which isn't necessarily what I am recommending, would it have made a difference in terms of procedures, or would the problems we've had have been the same?

Mr. Tanguy could start.

[Patrick Tanguy]

As far as the Emergencies Act is concerned, I'm no legal expert, but I can tell you that it's worded in such a way that certain criteria must be met to determine whether it's useful. It's very important to know where there is no leverage or legislative tool. The goal isn't necessarily to move ahead of other legislation, but to complement it.

Consultations are taking place with the provinces and territories. We are asking them if there are any legislative gaps that could be addressed using the measures contained in the Emergencies Act. The provinces and territories have told us that there are none. That is very important. The act states that the work of the provinces and territories should not be hindered by additional measures.

I'll stop there.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

I think I'm out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Paul-Hus, you have 30 seconds, if you wish.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

In closing, I will mention to the committee's analysts that in 2008, the Senate Committee on National Security and Defence conducted a comprehensive study of more than 250 pages on emergency preparedness. The report contained a very large number of recommendations. If those recommendations had been followed, many of the problems that are occurring today would not exist.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Paul-Hus.

Ms. Sidhu, you have five minutes. Go ahead, please.