Health Committee on April 22nd, 2020

[Jeff Wilkins]

That was a challenge we faced early in the COVID response with the Treasury Board of Canada.

Originally, if somebody was symptomatic before going to work and called the institution, they were going to have to use their own sick leave. Of course, we're in allergy season. We're in flu season. If I wake up and I have a little bit of a sneeze or a cough, I might not necessarily call in sick. I'll probably go to work thinking that it might be allergies.

However, in this realm here now, that mindset has changed. It was very important because the message had to be very clear that if you're not feeling well, if you have any symptoms, you should not be going into the workplace. In order for that to come around, now if somebody is symptomatic, they will be given special paid leave by the Treasury Board to stay home for the 14-day period. Again, this is where testing becomes vitally important, because not everybody can go home.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Yes. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

We'll go now to Dr. Kitchen.

Dr. Kitchen, please go ahead for five minutes.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you all for being here today. I appreciate that. Your comments have been greatly appreciated.

Many groups have presented to us, and one of the common things I'm hearing is that we weren't prepared.

Mr. Wilkins, you talked about proper steps not being taken right from the start.

Mr. Stamatakis, your comments were about communication and that things haven't been put out there. It appears that we have silos, but these silos aren't communicating such that everything is put out at the same time for everybody.

That obviously is challenging when we look at the Public Health Agency. I appreciate your comments on the history of how we've developed to where we are today, but we need to be ahead of the game, and a lot of times we are actually reacting instead of being proactive in what we do.

Mr. Tanguy, my first question is for you.

We've heard many times that within the health care sector, one of the biggest barriers to addressing COVID-19 is a lack of information or a lack of transparency from the provinces and territories with respect to data. Has Public Safety identified any issues with obtaining data from the provinces so that preparations and precautions can be scaled to the severity of the situation in each jurisdiction?

[Patrick Tanguy]

I would defer to my colleagues at the Public Health Agency, because when it comes to the health sector, that information, that data, was collected by Health Canada and the Public Health Agency.

[Cindy Evans, Acting Vice-President, Emergency Management, Public Health Agency of Canada]

Very early on in our process we make use of our federal, provincial and territorial mechanisms. As early as December 31, our chief public health officer, Dr. Tam, engaged with the Canadian council of chief medical officers of health. In addition, as part of our federal-provincial-territorial response plan for biological events, we put in place very early on a special advisory committee, and they've been meeting regularly, two or three times a week, since January with a very effective sharing of information.

Noting the different timelines in which public health measures came on board in the provinces, there was very great sharing across the table in terms of the consistency of the public health measures that were needed for provinces and territories to work co-operatively, recognizing that infectious diseases don't respect borders, international or provincial.

In terms of receiving information, to the extent of discussing how we would define active cases and the amount of information necessary for us to accurately reflect Canada's situation, I would say information sharing from the provinces was quite strong and started quite early.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I heard from Public Safety that when you're looking at aspects of PPE, you're referring to PHAC for that information. However, PHAC is looking after NESS. If PHAC is looking after NESS and saying this is purely for the health sector, how can Public Safety be looking at the use of NESS equipment, when PHAC is actually administering it strictly for health care?

[Patrick Tanguy]

To complement that work, vast work has been done by different departments. For instance, we've been reaching out to provinces and territories to find out what the need is for PPE outside of the health sector. We did that last week, and what we heard from the provinces, like Alberta, was that they had PPE in stock for 45 to 60 days, they were in a good position and they were procuring.

But we're not only doing this. With colleagues at PSPC and other departments, we're looking at the needs of other sectors, not just for first responders but for essential workers, for instance, and trying to come up with the needs required there.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I appreciate that, but we're hearing different results from other groups about not having that information.

I have one last question, hopefully quickly—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Dr. Kitchen, you're right on time now.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

We go now to Mr. Fisher.

Mr. Fisher, you have five minutes.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks, folks, for being here today. I appreciate your expert testimony.

Mr. Tanguy, you were before this committee on February 3. At that time you indicated that the government operations centre had progressed through level one, which is enhanced monitoring and reporting. Two is risk assessment and planning, and at that time, you were operating at level three.

I wonder if you could describe for the committee levels one through three. What are they, and when and why might the government operations centre proceed from one level to the next?

[Patrick Tanguy]

Thank you for the question.

At level one, for instance, the government operations centre will develop detailed authoritative reporting of significant information from a multitude of sources about the event, which it disseminates to federal emergency response partners to support their planning or response efforts. At level two, the government operations centre starts producing enhanced reporting, conducts a risk assessment and guides the development of a strategic plan for an integrated response, if required. Moving to level three, the government operations centre serves as the coordination centre for the federal response and provides regular situation reports, as well as briefings and decision-making support materials, for ministers and senior officials. This includes enhanced reporting, risk assessment and planning, as required.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Are there levels beyond three? If so, maybe describe them.

Have you moved beyond level three in the past? I'm thinking that Nova Scotia was hit quite hard by Hurricane Dorian. I'm wondering what Hurricane Dorian might have been, as a measurement of levels.

[Patrick Tanguy]

We don't have more than three levels to activate the government operations centre.

Dorian, if my memory is right, happened last September. At that point, we activated at level three to coordinate a response and work with lead departments. The way that the government operations centre works is by using the federal emergency response plan. We then work with the different lead departments. We will provide some support functions. In that case, the support that was requested was from the Canadian Armed Forces.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Let's switch to Mr. Stamatakis.

Sir, I want to thank you very much for your kind words at your opening with regard to our lost RCMP officer here in my community. I also want to thank you and ask if you could pass along to all of your members my thanks for policing. You talked about the level of anxiety with regard to policing. I can't imagine being in your partner's shoes right now.

Right now, folks travelling and entering into Canada must self-isolate for 14 days. That's a mandatory isolation through the minimizing the risk of exposure to COVID-19 in Canada order. The RCMP is playing a coordination role for all Canadian law enforcement.

How is the RCMP ensuring that relevant information with regard to the Quarantine Act is communicated to every Canadian law enforcement agency?

[Tom Stamatakis]

The best way I can answer that question is to use my own home service as an example.

We have seconded local police officers to an integrated unit, led by the RCMP, to manage those quarantine situations in the province of British Columbia. I believe, although I'm not a 100% sure, the same thing has happened in every province. That is how the government, through the RCMP, is making sure that the information is known to local agencies. That integrated unit or secondment unit will communicate out to the different police services about where there are people quarantined as a result of travel and that kind of thing.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Is information being provided to all law enforcement agencies about everyone subject to the quarantine or isolation order, or about only people who are suspected of non-compliance?

[Tom Stamatakis]

That's an issue, and I'm glad you asked the question, because one of the challenges we are having across jurisdictions is knowing not only where people on the front line—these are officers who are working every day interacting with people—are quarantined, or more importantly, arguably, for my members from a health and safety perspective, we're not getting information about where people who are infected are residing. Obviously you want to be respectful of those persons' privacy and deal with all those related issues. At the same time, I think it's important for police officers who are responding to know what they're responding to, not only so that they can reduce the anxiety that I'm talking about but also so they can be responding appropriately and know whether they need to don PPE before they enter the premises and interact with people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Fisher.

We will now go to Mr. Thériault.

Mr. Thériault, you have two and a half minutes left.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to address the Public Health Agency of Canada.

Ms. Thornton, you have given us the history of the stockpile and the reasons for several things. In your conclusion, you indicated that the response to this pandemic has required new innovative approaches and non-traditional partnerships to ensure the future of the stockpile.

What three recommendations would you make today on what should have been done or what we should do in the future?

[Sally Thornton]

Thank you very much for that question.

There are really three areas.

In terms of the partnerships, I would like to see a strong, sustained relationship with the Canadian Red Cross. They have been invaluable in providing services at a community level and helping outreach. They have an understanding of what happens on the ground and an awareness that bridges the public health element with some of the other concerns regarding our vulnerable communities and the issues they're facing and how best to address them.

While we are dealing largely with a public issue, it is making even more difficult the issues that vulnerable people in communities are facing. Organizations such as the Red Cross have real value there. To see them in some sort of more formalized working arrangement would be incredibly valuable.

We have had phenomenal collaborative relationships with our provinces and territories. I have never seen organizations come together so quickly, so thoroughly and so openly. On the health front, that has been a real bonus. It does reflect years of planning. This is not something that just happened because of this pandemic; it's happened since SARS. We've been doing a lot of pandemic planning and a lot preparedness work with them. I do think that we do need to actually have broader exercises to understand the implications of public health on other areas of the economy, so not quite as insular as just public health but leveraging that approach, that collaboration, those types of exercises and taking them broader, engaging more in terms of the groups that Patrick Tanguy is working with in that area.

The third thing as we look to the future is to understand the implications of a public health event such as this on national security. We tend to deal with public health as something off to the side. We are now seeing the impacts of this not just on people but also on supply chains, on our ability to bring food across the border, on agriculture and on every aspect of the economy.

I do think something that has come out very strong is the recent call to action. While I'm dealing with procurement, with suppliers that may exist, there's been a call to action to the private sector, to private businesses to actually build capacity in Canada to deal with public health requirements for PPE. We have to understand that's something we have to sustain and build into a broader, longer-term strategy as we move forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

We go now to Mr. Davies.

Mr. Davies, you have two and a half minutes.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Thornton, you referenced the NESS budget. Can you undertake to provide this committee with the amount of funding the federal government has provided for the national emergency strategy stockpile for each of the last 10 years?