Yes, let's try that.
Evidence of meeting #17 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sector.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #17 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sector.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Government Relations, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
Okay.
It will be very similar to the unclogging after the CN rail strike, which will take four to six weeks at a minimum, and in this case might take longer because of the global supply chains into Asia, and other things like that.
That piece in and of itself is not going to be easy and it will trickle over into not just the containers that are on ocean vessels, but also into the rail system, trucking system, everything.
1:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Policy and Government Relations, Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters
As far as safe handling goes, I think there are protocols that were already put in place and we put out guides on safe material handling. I think our members are working really closely with the trucking industry and others to make sure that's out there, so there are clean protocols in place. I think it will be well handled. It will just take a long time to undo.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Terry Dowdall Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
Right.
Mr. Laskowski, in the last few weeks we've received several calls from owner-operators who have been parked, or given no work or who have been laid off, and in some instances their contracts have been cancelled. This is going to create a major problem. They won't be able to pay the insurance coverage for their equipment, won't be able to make truck payments and won't be able to make mortgage payments.
Have you encountered any owner-operators who have had similar problems or who have slipped through the cracks of the the federal measures that have been presented?
1:10 p.m.
President, Canadian Trucking Alliance
With regard to the pain being felt by small companies, owner-operators as you mentioned, it is being felt throughout the trucking supply chain, both big and small. As our customers suffer, the trucking industry suffers, so it's not just size specific. It's what sector of the economy you're tied to in the trucking industry. We talk to all sectors, so it really depends on your customer base.
As I mentioned before, the CTA has complimented the Government of Canada for the measures it's introduced. We've introduced several specific measures for our sector that have been supported by the owner-operators association that will help small carriers, the owner-operators as you mentioned, and also carriers of all sizes.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Terry Dowdall Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON
I'm going to turn it over to Dr. Kitchen for a question, please.
1:10 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I really appreciate, Ms. Vyce and Ms. Black, the [Technical Difficulty—Editor]. You presented a number of issues that you would like to see happen.
I'm interested to hear from you because you talked about the cross-contamination that we're seeing in the long-term care facilities. You've talked about how we've moved from where the worker only goes into one facility now, instead of multiple facilities.
I'm interested to know this. My wife is a nurse. She is actually a long-term care nurse who does home care now, but she was in intensive care. In my practice for many years.... Basically, when we went to school we learned about sanitation. When we went into a hospital, we could smell that hospital. We knew the sanitation was there because the facility was using disinfectants to disinfect viruses, bacteria and germs. We walked in there with our street clothes and changed into our scrubs. Then we got out of our scrubs, into our street clothes, and left. Now, we see people going in. They come in in their work clothes. They leave in their work clothes. They have been around all of these germs, etc. They may go to the grocery store or wherever without even going home to even shower, etc.
I'm interested to know what your comments are on whether these are important things that we maybe should be getting back to in order to protect Canadians.
1:15 p.m.
Research Director, Hospital Employees Union, Canadian Union of Public Employees
In B.C. there are actually strict protocols in place in the facilities right now during COVID that they have change when they're at work. Those clothes go into a bag and they're taken home.
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Right, but that's going on right now. How about for the future?
The bottom line is that these pandemics are coming. We saw it with SARS. We took these steps, but we haven't followed through with them. Are these not things we should be following through and continue with?
1:15 p.m.
Research Director, Hospital Employees Union, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I'm not certain if wearing street clothes into the facility has as significant an impact as cutting staff in infection control or cutting staff in cleaning services. I think that may be a bigger issue.
Also, in cutting staff in laundry services, you don't have anybody to do that laundry anymore; hence, the issue right now of our workers not being able to get scrubs when they go in. They have to do the laundry at home and bring it in. They're not being provided with scrubs in many facilities.
1:15 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Would it not be beneficial for them to do that?
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Marcus Powlowski
Dr. Kitchen, your time's up.
We go now to Dr. Powlowski. Dr. Powlowski, five minutes, please.
1:15 p.m.
Liberal
Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Hello. I want to direct my questions to CUPE. I'm going to preface them by saying that I'm asking you an unfair question, but there are no rules precluding me from asking you unfair questions.
I think you've done a very nice job at presenting your case about the very real, significant problems with chronic care homes: the poor wages of people working in those chronic care homes, the fact that people are overworked, that you don't have enough hours to give sufficient attention to people you ought to. You've pointed out how these have led to very real problems with the COVID-19 epidemic. Because of the poor wages, people go from one nursing home to another and spread the disease. That way, when people haven't been able to work because they're sick, there's no one to fill in the gaps.
As a result, you made some very good recommendations, I think, for national care standards. You also listed a bunch of proposals that you thought should be implemented to try to make things better for chronic care homes. The biggest one is that these positions be publicly funded.
I think your ideas are really good. I'm certainly sympathetic. I think that members from all parties would agree that we have to do better for our senior citizens, many of whom have spent their whole lives contributing to society and are now in a position themselves that they need a little help. I think we all agree that these are things that are needed.
Now here's the unfair question. We agree on what I just mentioned, but how are we going to pay for that as a society? For you, like me, like all of us who are part of society, there are many costs. Can we as a society afford to put that much more money into looking after elderly people? How are we going to find the money?
1:15 p.m.
Research Director, Hospital Employees Union, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I'd like to answer one aspect of this and turn then to Amanda.
For starters, when you give the money to a not-for-profit employer, it is going directly to the care staff. The Office of the Seniors Advocate in B.C. issued a publication a few months ago that demonstrated that our for-profit operators in B.C. under-delivered 200,000 hours. That would be the equivalent of a whole other care facility that could house about 150 beds.
Not-for-profit providers over-delivered by 80,000 hours. Their per diems from the health authorities are allocated in such a way that assumes they are all paying the public sector wage of $25.33 an hour to care aides, even though some of them are only paying $17. That is one way we could be more efficient with our money and our spending.
I'll turn to Amanda.
1:20 p.m.
Senior Research Officer, Canadian Union of Public Employees
I agree with the statements by Lou. The question of how we pay for any of our public services is, of course, extremely complex and difficult to answer.
I'm not a health economist, but one thing I have learned and have realized throughout the pandemic is that where there is a will, a political will, there is a way to find the money and to provide it to the services where it is most needed to support Canadians.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Marcus Powlowski Liberal Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Okay. Thank you. I think it was an unfair question, but the benefits and the efficiency of public over private I can certainly appreciate.
I want to ask a second question about PPE in chronic care homes and who has responsibility for that. I, as a member of Parliament in Thunder Bay, have been a little bit frustrated in trying to figure out who exactly is the one who's responsible for providing PPE to each of the homes. I know there are the Ministries of Health and Long-Term Care in Ontario, and they have inspectors. I know that the Public Health Agency of Canada made recommendations on the measures that long-term care homes ought to implement in controlling infectious disease, but some of these homes are under private ownership, and some are under public ownership.
I would think that the ministries are supposed to survey, but do they have any teeth in enforcing the requirements for what PPE is used? And then, who pays?
1:20 p.m.
Research Director, Hospital Employees Union, Canadian Union of Public Employees
The per diem amount that's given to long-term care operators is intended to cover safety equipment for our members. The cost would be absorbed....
However, there have been extra funds, in B.C. anyway. I'm not sure what's happening in the other provinces and territories to increase the amount to help operators to be able to provide that.