Health Committee on June 17th, 2020

[Frédéric Seppey]

Again, perhaps I can start and colleagues can add to it.

When there's an outbreak, the first responders, as my colleagues from CFIA indicated, would be the local health authorities. It varies from one jurisdiction to another as to how decentralized it is.

For example, if I were to refer to the case of Olymel in Yamachiche, with an outbreak that happened in late March, it was the santé publique, the health authority at the provincial level, that intervened very quickly. Very quickly, CFIA and AAFC, as well as the health authorities in Quebec, the company, and the agriculture department in Quebec sat down together to look at all the dimensions of the issue and at how to remedy the situation, but it was a company decision to close. It reopened after two weeks, after taking all the measures to the satisfaction of the provincial health authority that it was safe to reopen.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

What steps has Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada taken to collaborate with different levels of government and industry stakeholders to respond to outbreaks at these facilities? Are there any specific steps that have been taken as a result of this pandemic?

[Frédéric Seppey]

Yes, there were a number of steps. While the jurisdiction is shared, as you pointed out, we are a convenor. We are the main interlocutor to the industry or the point of initial contact when it comes to issues of preoccupation for the industry.

One example is that we've worked with the Public Health Agency of Canada and the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety to compile all the guidance on public health that exists at the federal level, so that in one document, while it was not the legal authority, it was at least providing operators with a greater sense of what are the guidelines they should refer to in addressing their issues. Several provincial governments are doing the same thing, and we are coordinating our efforts through our mechanisms at Agriculture of federal-provincial collaboration.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Of the data you've received so far, what was the most significant lesson learned from the response ? What would you do differently going forward?

[Frédéric Seppey]

I think that communication early on and being as transparent as we can be among partners are among the lessons. There are a number of lessons that were learned from Olymel, for example. I'm using that case because it was quite symbolic at the beginning of the pandemic. I think the way that this company operated with regulatory authorities and was transparent and collaborative is a case study for what should be done. In fact, since that initial outbreak, there have been no outbreaks in the hog processing plant of Olymel in Quebec.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

You're done. Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We go now to Ms. Jansen for five minutes.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Thank you.

I'd like to direct my questions to Ms. Barnes, especially because of her ability to speak with a proper microphone.

I just want to say that it has been my unlucky pleasure to have to deal with the CFIA back in the day when I was farming, so it's interesting to have this opportunity to ask some questions.

It was mentioned in the presentation that you “took immediate and decisive action to protect the integrity of Canada's food supply”. I wonder if you can tell me why I'm hearing very different stories from poultry processors here in B.C.

When a few of our processors had to shut down due to COVID-19 outbreaks, the other processing plant stepped in to fill the gaps by doing a lot of overtime, but their CFIA inspectors were unwilling to help out. They were demanding two weeks' notice for overtime work, which of course is not feasible in a pandemic. Why were they refusing to do overtime in the beginning?

[Colleen Barnes]

In the beginning, we were all learning what the new environment was like. Very quickly we put in place an escalation protocol, so that if plants had an issue, they worked it up through the chain of command. If there was an extra shift that they wanted to put on, there was a protocol on how to let us know so we could arrange for our staff to provide that oversight.

We also worked with the associations. Working at that level too, at the most senior level at the agency, we worked through these issues together.

After we set up these protocols, there were no shifts that we weren't able to cover.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I don't know if you heard, but plants were basically telling their inspectors that in order to deal with the enormity of the situation, they had to proceed with humane killing with or without inspectors on site.

When did CFIA finally encourage overtime for inspectors? When did that happen?

[Colleen Barnes]

I'm not sure I know that exactly. As soon as those protocols were in place, we were doing extra shifts I think.

Theresa.

[Theresa Iuliano]

We provide overtime services on a daily basis for industry, overtime in terms of daily shifts and overtime on weekends. So that—

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Unfortunately under the pandemic, it seems that some of our meat processors were not getting that kind of service because the inspectors were unwilling...without two weeks' notice.

You mentioned that you have hired 144 new inspectors and 44 veterinarians. As Canadian poultry processing is now down by an average of 7.5%—and I understand it goes across the sector due to the drop in food demand by restaurants and tourism—why do you need more inspectors now compared to when Canada was in full swing?

You mentioned it yourself that there are many inspections that aren't happening. Why are there the extra inspectors all of a sudden?

[Colleen Barnes]

Agriculture may want to comment on this as well, Mr. Chair.

I think what we saw, and what we're seeing now, is that plants that had challenges have sorted out their new way of operating, given equipment to their employees and they are now ramping up. We are seeing a quick return to former levels of capacity and output in plants. We are investing to make sure that if there is an uptick in cases in the future....

As Agriculture mentioned, there is a bit of backlog in terms of some animals that have to be cleared. We're going to need that extra capacity to help the industry do it.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

I have a quick question, then.

On April 15 or 14 or 11, CFIA got $20 million so they could ramp up and get prepared for this pandemic with enough...I guess inspectors and so on. It took until June 15 for $50 million to be put out by the government for a food surplus program.

When you think about the food surplus program, at $50 million—just in extra pounds of potatoes alone, it's 450 million pounds—why did CFIA get $20 million right away in the beginning and now we only see a measly $50 million for food surplus? Who got the priority here? What does it look like? Does it look like CFIA or farmers?

Perhaps Ms. Barnes can answer, or Ag Canada. It's fine with me.

[Colleen Barnes]

I think it's Agriculture.

[Steven Jurgutis]

Thank you for the question.

I'll attempt an answer and then see if my colleague Mr. Seppey wants to add anything.

I don't think I'd be in a position to make a comparison between the two different streams of funding for different types of initiatives or programs and how the government may have decided which has a higher or more important—

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Priority, right.

[Steven Jurgutis]

—priority. What I can say is that they are to serve different outcomes and objectives.

[Tamara Jansen, Conservative, Cloverdale—Langley City, BC]

Exactly. My point today is that farmers have not been getting the priority.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Ms. Jansen, your time is up. Thank you.

We go now to Dr. Jaczek for five minutes.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

My first question will be for Ms. Barnes of the CFIA.

You're aware that the Agriculture Union appeared earlier during this committee meeting. Mr. Murphy made a clear request for some national standards.

You have also alluded to the fact that in terms of your employees and issues like personal protective equipment and so on, you were very reliant on individual public health units. I suppose this explains some of the lack of consistency in terms of some of the advice that was being given within each of...well, we'll say the meat packing plants or the processing plants.

Would you not find it preferable to have clearer national standards in terms of public health practice?

Just so you know, during this committee over the last many months, there has been a call for clearer national public health standards.

Could you speak to that a little bit? Certainly from the union perspective, this lack of consistency resulted in different outcomes in the plants themselves.

I'm sure, given your concern for your employees, that you would also be somewhat in favour of something clearer across the country.

[Colleen Barnes]

We have heard those calls for a national approach. As we have worked through these issues over the past three months, what we've learned is that the approach can't be national. The reason is that in each community, those plants were either a hot spot within a broader community that was a hot spot or they were very localized.

The response that happened in each plant really depended on the extent of the health care resources that were available in each community. Sometimes there didn't have to be as stringent a response if there was greater capacity to deal with the issue. For us, it really became working with the local public health authorities in each instance to make sure we were responding and making sure our own employees were protected in that environment.