Health Committee on Feb. 5th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Webber.

[Len Webber, Conservative, Calgary Confederation, AB]

That was quick.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Yes.

Mr. Fisher.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, folks, for being here today.

The women and men of the Canadian Armed Forces deeply matter to the folks in Canada. Dartmouth—Cole Harbour is home to CFB Shearwater, and with CFB Halifax nearby, I have a lot of military families at home who are paying rapt attention to what's going on in Trenton. I'd say that most Canadians have been watching the coronavirus situation closely, and they want to be sure that they and their loved ones are protected from this virus.

We've heard a lot about misinformation and how it's spreading online, and how the situation is being sensationalized by some. Can you tell us more—one of the major-generals, perhaps—about how those being repatriated here in Canada from Wuhan, China will be screened before and after they arrive back in Canada? Also, what measures are being put in place to protect military families and the general public in Trenton?

[MGen A.M.T. Downes]

Thank you very much for that question.

There are multiple parts to the question, of course. The first element I'll touch on is the screening of the returnees in China. As has already been mentioned, there will be a first layer of screening conducted by Chinese authorities, followed by another screening by Canadian Forces medical personnel prior to the aircraft departing from China.

During the flight, people will be monitored; their symptoms will be monitored and so on. Anybody who does become ill on the flight will be required to follow the protocol that I mentioned earlier of being isolated as best as possible within the aircraft and so on. This information will be relayed to public health authorities here in Canada.

Once the aircraft arrives in Trenton, the jurisdiction of the Canadian Forces in terms of overseeing the health of the individuals gets transferred over to the Public Health Agency to conduct the next phase of this operation.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

What measures are being put in place to protect the military families and the general public in Trenton?

[MGen A.M.T. Downes]

The few military personnel who will be in direct contact with members of the returning group will be wearing personal protective equipment to prevent any risk of being exposed to the virus.

I think it's important to highlight the fact that these returnees are healthy Canadians. There is a risk, of course, that one or more of them might have been exposed to this virus, but I think the risk is low that this in fact is the case. I think it's very helpful to keep that in mind.

Of course, during the quarantine process, there will be the opportunity for monitoring their health throughout, and all the containment measures that the Public Health Agency has been planning will be applied. I think that the risk to Canadian Forces members and their families is incredibly low.

Thank you.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you so much, Major-General.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Fisher.

We'll go now to Mr. Thériault.

You have three minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Namiesniowski, on January 29, you said that provincial laboratories were able to detect cases of infection, but that the confirmation is done in Winnipeg.

Is that still the case? Would it not be more efficient to have the territories, provinces and Quebec confirm directly? Couldn't public health authorities and hospitals confirm cases themselves? If that is already being done, so much the better, but if not, why not?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

There is a network of laboratories called the Canadian Public Health Laboratory Network. These are mainly provincial laboratories, public-held laboratories. Some of them can test for the coronavirus, but not all. The ones that can are in Ontario and British Columbia, but because the testing is so new and this virus is so new, they are still sending the samples to the Winnipeg lab just to be sure that this is what we have.

The idea, though, is that eventually there will be tests that are easier to conduct; they're not trying to sequence viruses or detect the molecular genetics of the virus. Even commercial tests could be available at some point, whereby many more people will be able to test for this virus. I think it's just a matter of time, but right now confirmation is felt to be the most prudent precautionary approach.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Dr. Tam, you said earlier that enhanced controls might do more harm than good. What did you mean by that?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

I think one of the members asked about travel bans, stopping people from actually travelling.

The reason the World Health Organization doesn't recommend something like this is that, in general, it may do more harm than good. I think someone mentioned what the United States was doing. If you stop traffic entirely, there are a number of issues.

The international community must come together in solidarity to contain. Having measures that very negatively affect a certain country that's trying very hard to do its best can impede whether this country in the future will ever share anything transparently with others. China posted the virus genome very quickly. What are they getting out of it? I think the idea is to support China.

Obviously, the number of flights has already been reduced, because nobody is actually going to China, but Canada has not closed its borders. It's using these layers of measures to screen people coming in, in order to keep movement across the border.

The other thing is that if you're going to support China's efforts, then medical aid, such as teams or supplies such as masks, gowns or something else, must continue to flow.

For all those reasons, the World Health Organization will never recommend doing that, except in very exceptional circumstances. As I said, the border measures that are most effective are at source, in China.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Ms. Kwan, you have three minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

The Minister of Health said in the House last week that those who are asymptomatic cannot spread the virus. I'm glad to hear the additional information from WHO. It seems to verify that, at least to that extent.... However, the Minister of Health in China has been reported as saying that it can spread asymptomatically.

My question, then, is this. Have we contacted China directly to ask this question for clarification? As was acknowledged last week by the panel, China has the foremost knowledge about the virus. Can we not contact China directly to verify that information? It seems to me that it is a critical question that we should have a definitive answer on.

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

The international construct is that the Chinese authorities have been providing data, and in quite a lot of detail, to—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm sorry. I'm going to interrupt because we've run out of time.

I had a conversation with the minister after she made that statement to privately ask her whether we have the capacity to contact China directly to ask that question. She said yes, and I asked if she would undertake to get that information for us, and she said yes. I haven't heard back, but I'm wondering if, with the health officials, you have the capacity to do that.

I understand that we are dealing with the international framework, but we also have an opportunity, I think, to have direct contact with China to ask that question for clarification. Can we undertake to do that?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Of course there are different linkages, whether technical or scientific, or through consular linkages, and also through our actual operation centres, but I think what is difficult is that we actually need to.... It's actually quite a difficult piece of epidemiology to ascertain whether some asymptomatic person could ever transmit. It's not just a matter of getting that data. The Chinese have been publishing the studies, and those studies are being critiqued on an international stage.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Yes. I understand that, too, but the Minister of Health must have had something on the basis of which that statement was made. I think that going back to the source to ask on what basis that statement was made will provide an abundance of clarity for us.

The concern I have is this. I don't think people purposely spread the virus; it's the people who don't know that they might be a carrier.... In those instances, it might be spread. That is a major concern.

We're hearing mixed information about the spread of the virus. In the case of B.C., the individual who came to visit family here in the metro Vancouver area presumably was asymptomatic when they travelled. You're shaking your head—

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Asymptomatic during travel, yes, but not after they came in.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

The person, according—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Your time's up. Sorry.

Thanks to all of you. Regrettably, we have some time constraints here.

Thank you, Ms. Namiesniowski and Dr. Tam, and thank you, General Cadieu and General Downes. We really appreciate your testimony. It's very helpful, and I thank you for your time.

We will suspend briefly—

Yes?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I wonder if we can undertake to find out for this committee about the question I asked, whether it be from the Minister of Health or from Foreign Affairs or whichever source, to get at the source of the quote that was provided from the Minister of Health about the virus being spread asymptomatically, to verify that information for this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Absolutely. I will take that up with the minister myself.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you so much.