Health Committee on June 23rd, 2020

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

The Red Cross also went on to say, with respect to procedures of procurement of PPE—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Dr. Kitchen, your time's up. Thank you.

We go now to Dr. Jaczek.

Dr. Jaczek, please go ahead for four minutes.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I will be sharing my time with Ms. Sidhu.

First of all, I want to thank the team at Foreign Affairs for all the incredible efforts they've made on repatriation. My constituents are incredibly grateful, and I think all Canadians have now become very aware of the consular service. Those of us who have travelled abroad have often seen the advice to register with the consular service. We now know why, so I extend a real heartfelt thank you.

I also have a special shout-out to Ms. Morgan. A year ago, you and I were in the same ICD class at Rotman, and I don't think we ever thought at that time that we would meet like this.

My question specifically relates to some of the international assistance that the government has provided. Minister Karina Gould has made a number of announcements: $50 million in international assistance through the World Health Organization, and other partners for potential bilateral support for developing countries in response to COVID-19. Actually, the list is very lengthy.

Earlier today, one of our witnesses expressed a certain amount of concern that donations that went from Canada, or from any country, to the UN took quite a bit of time to actually get to the front-line services they were designed to support.

I wonder if Canada has a way of vetting whether aid goes where we want it to go.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you for your kind words. I really want to transfer that on. I'm happy that Deputy Minister Morgan is here to pass on the good words that you said to the whole team. They really did all the work, and MPs have been very helpful.

To your point about aid, we can certainly look into that. We have tried to work with a number of multilateral partners, whether in Africa, the Caribbean or the Pacific Islands. As you know, the best way to deliver some of this aid is through local agencies. We worked with the Atomic Energy Agency, for example, to provide some test kits in the Caribbean. We worked with PAHO to provide some health equipment in other parts of the world, so we have been engaging with partners around the world. I think other colleagues mentioned the Red Cross. We have been engaging with those that we think, along with our experts, are the best way to deliver aid. I want to make sure, as you said, that the aid is going where it is sent.

Having talked to foreign ministers in probably 130 countries in the last few weeks, none of them have heard the suggestion that the aid did not go to where it's supposed to be. We can certainly look into that further, but I would say that what matters.... Nothing is perfect, as you know, when dealing with a crisis. I think some colleagues have highlighted ways we can improve. We'll certainly look into that. We'll look at best practices and what others have done.

We'll have to do a post-mortem about everything we have done in order to see how we can best prepare ourselves for the next crisis, but I certainly think we have worked with reputable international agencies.

We're happy to look into any case that may come to light if other witnesses have identified shortcomings. I am more than happy to take that up with our officials to see what may have happened.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Ms. Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Thank you for joining us, Minister. I want to echo my colleagues and thank you and the whole Global Affairs team for their historical efforts in bringing thousands of Canadians back home. You also heard that when you joined Brampton virtually at the Brampton town hall.

Minister, my question is about Canada's global role in responding to the crisis. What has been achieved so far in working with our partners around the world in fighting COVID-19, particularly when it comes to vaccine research? How do you see this relationship moving forward now?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I think during this crisis Canada has shown its best, and leadership in times of crisis is what people will remember. The Prime Minister, for example, participated at the gathering at the UN and the Gavi pledging conference. When the EU and Japan ask Canada to be there, that just shows the place of Canada in the world, the role we can play and the influence. I think we will build on that, and we have built relationships.

The foreign ministers' COVID meeting, which I referred to in my opening statement, is but one example of where we have led. We realized that we needed more coordination and to learn from each other and look ahead. I must say that I'm pretty proud that we have had our ninth call. If you look back at the history of Canada, it's not really common that Canada would be talking on almost a weekly basis with countries like South Korea, Singapore, South Africa and Brazil. We're trying to make sure we take into account what's going on and how we can work together. We're talking about air bridges, supply chains and transit operations. We've been trying to make a difference in very concrete ways for people.

At the end, Canadians expect us to rise to the challenge. I'm happy to say that we've been able to work together with members in a way that I think shines a very nice light on the work that parliamentarians can do when they work together.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Sidhu.

Mr. Genuis, please go ahead for four minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, before I start, is it four minutes or five?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

It's four minutes. We have to cut this short. We have a fairly hard stop at half past the hour.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay. Well, Mr. Chair, after your repeated interruptions, I'm disappointed to hear that this isn't the regular allotted time.

Minister, as far as it pertains to COVID-19, I think one of the core foreign policy issues here is that we had an outbreak of a novel virus in China, where there was a state-enforced cover-up that included the intentional suppression of the discussion of the virus on social media. Do you agree with that assessment?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I am very concerned about disinformation, which I think I said at the beginning. I think we have seen some state and non-state actors who would try to influence public opinion with disinformation. I can assure you that this is something we're talking about at Five Eyes. We've talked at the G7, and we're talking with a number of foreign ministers. We are very aware of what some state and non-state actors are trying to portray in this crisis. We are engaging with eyes wide open—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Sorry, Minister, but just because of the limited time, perhaps I could sharpen that question a bit.

I mean, what do you think of the Government of China's response in the early days? We're not talking about combatting disinformation. We're talking about a system of tracking and eliminating any comments from Chinese social media raising concern about the emergence of a new virus. We have a pandemic because the Chinese state was suppressing discussion that could have facilitated an earlier response.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You know, I think you're right that questions will have to be asked. That's part of the review that we have supported—at the World Health Organization, for example—to say that tough questions will have to be asked. I don't want to prejudge the conclusion, but I can assure you that we've been front and centre in the discussions with our Five Eyes partners, with G7 countries, with Australia to look at how we can improve the system, the alert system, the leadership and the financing of the organizations that we need to prevent the next crisis.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, I didn't really get an answer to my last question on that. You're talking about the international investigation. I'm asking about the initial domestic response by the Chinese government, which I think was not critically analyzed or criticized by the World Health Organization to the extent it should have been.

Does the investigation need to include a look at the Chinese state's own domestic response, and in particular the suppression of the information about the virus?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I would say that countries around the world want to get answers to a number of questions. I don't want to prejudge what the scope of the review will be, necessarily, but I think you're quite right that questions need to be asked. I've been forthcoming. I've been saying that from day one. I've been saying in private and in public that tough questions will have to be asked. Canadians and the international community deserve answers. This is a global pandemic. It's affecting everyone. It's affecting our way of life. Therefore, we have been supportive from the get-go.

You may not have been there, but I can assure you that when these discussions were happening, Canada was there. Certainly, we supported an investigation and inquiry to make sure that light would be shed on all of that.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Minister. I'm aware of what the specific text of the World Health Assembly resolution was.

I want to move on to something else. I had asked about the situation in Xinjiang. I want to further probe that point a little bit, because you didn't answer the genocide question specifically. I'd like to know if the government is contemplating the imposition of Magnitsky sanctions against those involved in gross violations of human rights in Hong Kong, in Xinjiang, or anywhere else in the People's Republic of China.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I told you before, Mr. Genuis, that human rights, whether it's in Xinjiang or whether it's in Hong Kong.... You've heard me speak pretty loudly when it comes to Hong Kong. We had three statements. The first one was with Australia and the U.K.—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Minister, I'm running out of time, so would you please address the issue of Magnitsky sanctions? It was a specific question. We're going to run out of time. Is the government contemplating the use of Magnitsky sanctions against gross violators of human rights in China, yes or no?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Mr. Genuis, if you want me to answer, I'd say we are at the forefront of the defence of human rights around the world. That includes China—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Magnitsky sanctions, yes or no?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

—that includes Hong Kong. We will continue—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Magnitsky sanctions, yes or no?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

—to defend human rights wherever around the world. And I thank you for raising—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

That's not an answer to the question, Minister.