Evidence of meeting #25 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vaccines.
A video is available from Parliament.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Thank you, Mr. Maguire. We will go now to Mr. Van Bynen.
Please go ahead for five minutes.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister Hajdu and health officials, for joining us today. It's always great to hear from you on what we're doing to protect the health of Canadians, especially as we continue to fight this virus.
Minister, I want to ask you about our vaccine rollout, since you were so rudely interrupted when you tried to respond earlier.
Vaccines are top of mind now for most Canadians. Our government has been instrumental in delivering vaccines to provinces and territories. Now we're seeing over a million doses arrive every week. Can you tell us more about the work the federal government has done to get vaccines to the provinces and to the territories?
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
Thank you very much for this question.
I want to give huge congratulations to everyone at the Public Health Agency of Canada, and in particular Major-General Dany Fortin, who has been instrumental in the vaccine rollout with provinces and territories. It's been efficient and organized. I know he's been working really hard.
Perhaps I could give him a couple minutes to speak about his work with the provinces and territories.
2:20 p.m.
MGen Dany Fortin
Mr. Chair, thank you very much.
It is very much a team effort. We work closely with provinces and territories as well as with other federal departments to ensure that the rollout is as efficient as possible. By the end of the day today, we'll have nearly four million doses distributed across the country.
Provinces and territories are working on scaling up. We've ensured that we provide them with as much predictability as possible in terms of when doses are arriving, with forecasting tools to help them visualize what they will receive and when in the different types of scenarios. We'll continue to ensure that we respond to any requests they have—there are none at this time—in terms of repositioning or buying additional cold chain enabling equipment.
We also share a lot of best practices among provinces. We shared model playbooks just a week ago. They're very much looking at different modalities to distribute their vaccines.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you.
Minister, given the limited supply of vaccines in the entire world, are the recommendations by NACI and Health Canada unsafe?
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
Through the chair to the member, that is a question that's best placed to Dr. Tam.
These are scientific recommendations made by experts for the use of provinces and territories. Our government, as you know, has been guided by science and evidence in our response.
2:20 p.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Are we putting Canadians at risk with these recommendations?
2:20 p.m.
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
From a regulatory perspective, Health Canada uses extreme seriousness and high standards in reviewing the data in front of it, a lot of which is from clinical trials, with tens of thousands of persons studied, to ensure that vaccines are safe and effective and of high quality and that the benefits far outweigh any risks. That is the bottom line.
The National Advisory Committee on Immunization also takes into account the data, but in addition provides a lens for looking at all the vaccines together, as well as the epidemiology of where Canada is at, who's at the highest risk in terms of risk factors, and feasibility, acceptability, ethics and equity as they make their recommendations. The bottom line, though, is that any recommendation they make takes into account vaccine effectiveness and safety. That is how they provide recommendations.
As you've seen, the provinces and territories, through their chief medical officers and their vaccine programs, are essentially aligned with the NACI recommendations as well. I think Canadians should feel confident that the vaccines provided are effective and safe.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
Tony Van Bynen Liberal Newmarket—Aurora, ON
Thank you.
Over the past few weeks we've heard from various witnesses and experts about these COVID-19 vaccines and recommendations. We've heard a lot of scientific terms—some of which we are familiar with and some of which we are not—such as the ones that the public health officials use to talk to each other.
Minister, I'm wondering if you or any of your health officials are able to clarify the difference between efficacy and effectiveness and between clinical trial results and real-world results. If we have time, what are the different roles of PHAC and NACI and the role that they play in immunization?
I'm actually seeking the types of definitions that people would understand at the grassroots level.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
Thank you. It's a great question, and I will turn to Dr. Tam again.
Some aspects of your question are more easily explained than others, but I will agree that a lot of terms are flying around, and we want Canadians to have the clearest information possible. That's why we're grateful to Dr. Tam for her very frequent pressers to Canadians to let them know about all things COVID.
Dr. Tam, would you comment?
2:25 p.m.
Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
I'm very happy that people in Canada have significantly elevated their knowledge base and their acquisition of that scientific knowledge.
“Vaccine efficacy” is generally used to describe the data coming out of clinical trials done in very specific circumstances under a great many protocols. As you've seen in phase 1, 2 and 3 trials, escalating into phase 3, they're generally done with tens of thousands of patients enrolled. Those who are vaccinated are compared with those who received a placebo or another vaccine to see the final outcome, and that's how you get the really high effective rates. Highly efficacious vaccines are the results coming out of those trials. The safety aspect is also monitored through the clinical trials.
After authorization by regulatory authorities around the world, the vaccines are deployed in the tens of millions all around the world. The real, live on-the-ground performance of the vaccine is called “vaccine effectiveness”. In general, one might expect it to be a bit lower than what you find in well-controlled environments.
Those are the real, live administrations in the field. You have to give the vaccine under different circumstances to different populations, some in remote areas, with different logistics. What is very heartening is that the real, live on-the-ground data is really good as it stands. Some of the data coming out of British Columbia, Quebec and Ontario is demonstrating real-life vaccine effectiveness, particularly right now, in reducing long-term care facility impacts in very significant ways.
That's effectiveness. Safety is also—
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Excuse me, Dr. Tam. I'm sorry, but I have to cut you off. Thank you.
We go now to Mr. Barlow for five minutes.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Minister, we had some interesting testimony from NACI last night, and I know my colleagues have touched on that.
Minister, do you agree with NACI's testimony last night that the failure to procure enough RNA vaccines by the Liberal government has forced them to provide off-label use recommendation for the Pfizer vaccine?
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
It's not my understanding that this was the testimony of Dr. Caroline Quach-Thanh. I'll turn to Dr. Tam to speak to that question.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB
Minister, I'm asking you. You know the buck stops with you. This was exactly what NACI said—
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Mr. Barlow, it's up to the minister to decide how to answer the questions you pose to her.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
I'll turn to Dr. Tam because Dr. Tam, as you know, actively interacts with—
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB
Mr. Chair, it is my time, and I'm asking the minister if she personally agrees with that testimony from NACI.
I am not manipulating NACI's testimony. NACI's testimony last night was that the failure to access enough vaccines early on forced the decision to change the access to the Pfizer vaccine off-label to extend that second dose. That was her testimony. I'm asking the minister if she agrees with that testimony.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to turn to Dr. Tam, given that she is a medical expert and I am not. NACI is composed of medical experts, and she interacts with them.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB
Okay, I'll move on if you're not going to take.... You are the minister. You are—
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Mr. Barlow, it is up to the minister to decide how to answer the question.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
John Barlow Conservative Foothills, AB
Mr. Chair, I am asking the minister a question and for her opinion on that question.
Mr. Chair, I will move on.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon
Mr. Barlow, I will refer you to page 30 of Bosc and Gagnon, which identifies that the responsibility is to the minister to answer questions appropriately and to call on officials as appropriate to do so. If you ask a question of her, it's discourteous not to let her answer.
I'll stop your time briefly, but the minister has asked Dr. Tam to respond to your question, so I will invite Dr. Tam to do so.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON
I'll turn to Dr. Tam to talk about the NACI advice.