Health Committee on Oct. 26th, 2020

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. d'Entremont.

Go ahead, Ms. Sidhu.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

It was not open-ended. The end date is November 27. I proposed that already.

Thank you.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

No, you didn't.

On a point of order, the motion was to take away—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Ms. Rempel Garner, please.

Ms. Sidhu, thank you, but the amendment as I understood it was to simply remove the time limit.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Mr. Chair, I said in my remarks November 27 and—

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

No, she didn't, Mr. Chair.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, she did not. That was not her motion.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Not the motion, but when I said my statement—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Excuse me, everyone. Wait until you're recognized, please.

Ms. Sidhu, I did not hear that. That is not the motion on the floor as I understand it. We can pass or fail this motion with this amendment. If somebody wishes to move a motion to amend it according to a specific date, that will be different, but we will have to go with that particular interpretation at this time.

Dr. Powlowski, you're up next, please.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

The argument now is about whether or not it's reasonable to ask the minister to appear within four days to address the committee. In listening to this, I hark back to what Mr. Barlow threw out to me with regard to discussing the procurement of documents issue.

He said, “Dr. Powlowski, as a doctor, wouldn't you first of all take the time to review everything that's happened in the past before you deal with this patient before you?” I like that he asked that question, because I have the answer to it. The answer is that as an emergency room physician, no, that's not what you do. When you have an emergency right before you, you don't spend all your time on the computer looking at the records for the past five years while the person dies in front of you.

As an emergency room doctor, you have to address the problems as they come up. This is really fundamental. The same is true for health care and the ministries of health and hospitals all across this country. They are busy. They're busy dealing with the second wave. I know the opposition doesn't think that this is the case and thinks that the ministry of health has all of these people who are sitting around drinking coffee all day, and of course they can walk and chew gum at the same time and they can produce these documents.

But I think you have to realize—and yes, there are politics going on there—that you are getting people who are really busy trying to fight this pandemic and making them do something else, making them dance to your tune. You may be telling us, “Oh yeah, they can do it”, but I would suggest—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Dr. Powlowski, please address the chair. Thank you.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Okay.

Mr. Chair, I would suggest that the Minister of Health and everyone else in the ministry of health and everyone else in the health care profession are very busy trying to address this pandemic, and what you are asking them to do, which is to have them dance to your tune as quickly as you want them to dance, is pulling them away from their essential jobs. I would really question whether you're doing the country any favours.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Dr. Powlowski.

We go now to Mr. Davies.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you.

I am actually hearing a lot of agreement. I'll just preface my comments by saying that of course the minister is busy, and of course the health officials are busy—so are we—but accountability to Parliament and to this health committee is not an inconvenience. It is part and parcel of what we are elected to do. Canadians send us here to Parliament either to govern, if you're on the government side, or, if you're in the opposition, to hold the government to account. That's not accountability when it's convenient or just when you're not busy; it's kind of busy all the time.

I think there's a compromise here, and I'm going to move that we amend the motion to have the minister appear, if she can, on the supplementary estimates (B) before November 6. That's two weeks. Again, as has been pointed out on all sides of this question, this doesn't compel the minister to come, but I think it gives the minister a reasonable opportunity. I think two weeks' notice of an appearance for her to come before the health committee is a reasonable amount of time in the circumstances.

I would also just say that the pandemic argument is really a double-edged sword. I've heard it argued that we can't have the minister come because she's just completely preoccupied and busy with this pandemic that is ravaging our country. On the other hand, I would argue that the seriousness with which this issue is affecting our country is all the more reason why we need to have accountability.

I don't know that any of us disagree with any of that, by the way. To break the logjam, I would move that we amend the motion to invite the minister to appear by November 6.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Davies. I appreciate that. However, the amendment is out of order, because we have Ms. Sidhu's amendment before us at this time.

I would suggest that—

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Chair, perhaps I can canvass Ms. Sidhu and ask her if she would consider that a friendly amendment and amend her amendment herself. I don't know if that would be amenable to her.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

May I speak, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Go ahead.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Mr. Chair, if it's a subamendment, yes, that can be....

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We can't really do subamendments.

I can ask if there is unanimous consent from the committee to take Ms. Sidhu's motion to be amended as Mr. Davies has proposed. I think we can do that. Does anyone dissent on that particular change?

Seeing no dissent, I believe it is the unanimous will of the committee to accept Mr. Davies's changes to Ms. Sidhu's motion. Ms. Sidhu's motion now is that the minister be invited to appear on or before November 6. Is that correct? Okay. That is the amendment as it stands at this point.

We still have a number of people on the speakers list.

Mr. Davies, your hand is still up. Do you wish to carry on with your comments? You're done. Okay.

Mr. Van Bynen, please go ahead.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I was going to suggest the same thing Mr. Davies did, so I'll take my hand down as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you.

Mr. Fisher, please go ahead.

[Darren Fisher, Liberal, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

No, I'm good, Mr. Chair. I was going to suggest the same thing as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We have a lot of great minds thinking alike here.

Mr. Kelloway, please go ahead.