Health Committee on April 26th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Pardon me, Dr. Legault, but we're having trouble with the interpretation. Perhaps you could raise your microphone to moustache level and say a few words to make sure the interpretation is working.

[Dr. Serge Legault]

Is it okay like this?

Can you hear me better?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We'll try that. Please continue with your answer.

[Dr. Serge Legault]

Actually, I finished answering Mr. Thériault's question. I could add a lot, but in short, it is very important that we continue to train staff. Of course, training staff costs money, and money is very scarce in the Quebec public system right now.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

You also indicated that there were career changes. More and more operating room professionals are leaving. This means that we need to improve the image of these professions and also increase retention. To do so, governments must have the necessary money and some predictability to be able to make these investments.

Are you really afraid that we will ultimately be losing expertise?

[Dr. Serge Legault]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that early retirements will decrease as the pandemic situation improves and people return to the fold.

If you're an operating room nurse and you have been asked three times to work in an area that you are not used to, and to literally count the dead, it's understandable why you would decide to leave the profession.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

The federal government has decided not to provide its fair share and not to invest now in substantial health transfers. It prefers to wait until after the pandemic. Do you think this is justified, from a medical point of view?

[Dr. Serge Legault]

I don't think it's justified. I think it is important to invest money right away. We need to make the professions more attractive to try to reduce the number of people retiring or simply transitioning to other professions.

Money is not the answer to everything. I think everyone needs to be ready to take action to improve working conditions, but money is certainly part of the solution, if you ask me.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

Mr. Davies, you have six minutes, please.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for sharing your expertise and thoughts with us today.

Mr. Taylor, you mentioned that the people who suffer the most from food insecurity are Black and indigenous people, and you quoted research that said Black Canadians are 3.5 times more likely to be food insecure.

I am wondering if you could share where that data comes from. Can you elaborate a little more on that point for us?

[Paul Taylor]

Certainly. That data comes from research that FoodShare conducted in collaboration with PROOF, a research initiative at the University of Toronto that's focused on policy interventions for food insecurity.

This research challenged the mainstream understanding of the causes of food insecurity in this country. Previously, when groups looked at aggregate data on food insecurity in Canada it revealed that things like household composition, immigration status and access to an income floor for seniors all had impacts on food insecurity. This research looked at a specific community, the Black community, to better understand what was happening to Black Canadians when it came to access to food.

We found that Black Canadians were three and a half times more likely to be food insecure. We found that 36% of Black children grew up in food insecure households compared with 12% of white children, and also that the percentage of Black homeowners who are food insecure is just about equal to the percentage of white renters in Canada who are food insecure.

Ultimately what we found is that whether or not a Black household was new to Canada or here for generations or headed by one parent or two, the prevalence of food insecurity remained high. In essence, we found that the typical factors that helped protect against food insecurity that we had commonly understood for a long time, like ownership of a home or access to a pension, did not protect Black families in the same way that they do white families.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You also made a point that I'm hearing made in a number of different scenarios: that COVID didn't create these problems; it exposed these problems.

Has the COVID pandemic exacerbated food insecurity among the populations you serve?

[Paul Taylor]

Without a doubt. We just have to look at public transit vehicles and look at who is taking the most risk—excuse me, who has been forced to take the most risk. It is the Black and brown low-wage workers who are out exposing themselves to this pandemic, and of course, are then forced to deal with the brunt of its impacts and the disproportionate rates of illness and ultimately death. We're also seeing that our Black communities are having less access to the vaccine, less access to testing and all those things that we know are essential in our fight against this pandemic.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I read a recent news release from FoodShare Toronto about budget 2021. It said the following, which struck me. It said:

We know that 65% of Canadians who experience food insecurity have jobs. Everyone has the right to feed themselves and their loved ones with dignity and joy—regardless of their participation in the labour market—but there are people in this country working full time jobs who are unable to feed their families.

I think you quoted the Ontario Living Wage Network that set the living wage for Toronto at a little over $22 per hour. You concluded that release by saying you wanted to see federal policies that set income supports and wages at levels that are actually livable for people in our city, meaning Toronto.

Having seen the budget come out now, are the federal income supports and wages set at livable levels in that budget? What was your reaction to the steps that were or were not taken?

[Paul Taylor]

One of the things that we've seen pretty consistently with the government is an investment in charitable-based responses. It might seem weird coming from an organization like FoodShare, but to do the work we do with integrity and authenticity is to recognize that charity is not a solution to food insecurity and poverty. We absolutely need to look at income-based interventions.

We know the government finally moved forward on its promise to introduce a federal $15 an hour minimum wage. My goodness, it promised that years ago. A $15 minimum wage is not enough. People are going to be struggling.

The CERB has created an opportunity for a wider conversation about how we support people in the community. In one of the richest countries in the world, how can we provide the kinds of supports that people need, especially those who have been left behind? We need to be talking about livable incomes across the board and a basic income in this country.

There was none of that really mentioned in the budget. It was pretty disappointing for us, and disappointing for many folks whom our systems have made to struggle the most.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

You anticipated where I was going. I was going to ask your opinion on whether it's time to implement a guaranteed livable income, or at least begin with some pilots around the country. I think I have your answer on that.

I'm going to shift to something else, which is the concept of the universal school food program. That was mentioned in budget 2019. I have tabled private member's legislation to establish a national nutritious food program in schools.

How important is it for us to address food insecurity, at least in children?

[Paul Taylor]

The biggest impact that school food programs have are on educational outcomes. We know educational outcomes are connected to income potential down the road and overall health. It's an essential type of intervention that we need to be advancing and not neglecting.

I wouldn't necessarily connect it to food insecurity. Food insecurity is largely about income and families not having the income they need to buy the food they need.

With that said, school food programs are essential. They will support families that struggle with access to education and being able to feed the kids while at school.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Committee members, we have a few minutes left. I propose we take another shot at a lightning round. If everyone is in agreement, we'll do one minute per party, once again, and that will take us to the end.

We'll begin with Ms. Rempel Garner, for one minute.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Canyon, oftentimes, people talk about diversifying Alberta's economy. The entertainment sector is one part that has been decimated by COVID.

Can you briefly talk about the broader impacts, not just on performing artists but also on venues, audio technicians, etc.

[George Canyon]

It's something that we're all in together, no matter if you're an artist, a performer, a tech or a venue. We're all affected equally. If we can't play, then venues can't sustain an income or have any kind of growth.

At my management, Invictus Entertainment, out of Penticton, B.C., Jim has told me horrific stories as of late, where he has reached out to contacts that he has booked and worked with in the venues for over 20 years who are no longer there. He was told he has to call the mayor of the town, or the city, to try to access the venue.

One of the biggest concerns coming out, God willing, the other side of COVID is that we're looking at six to eight months minimum for these venues to be restaffed, if they haven't been already been reallocated. We've lost quite a few theatres across Canada to now becoming movie theatres only. They're actually taking the time and doing the work through grants to convert the theatres. We have now lost an outlet for 3.1 million people to actually go and earn an income.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

We now go to Ms. Sidhu, for one minute.

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

My first question is to Mr. Grant.

As you know, this pandemic highlighted the issue of early learning and child care. The budget announced last week the national child care plan.

What long-term benefits do you see for implementing such a system for both parents and children?

[Clovis Grant]

As I noted, prevention is such a critical part of addressing the issue of youth homelessness. The stronger families are, the less likelihood there will be, down the road, of homelessness.

Obviously, nothing's a guarantee, but it certainly is a big step forward in making sure that families get the support they need to better understand how to strengthen the needs of their kids and to work with the schools. All of these are preventative measures to addressing homelessness.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Sidhu.

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for one minute.