Health Committee on April 26th, 2021

[George Canyon]

On average, you're looking at probably, depending on the venue size, a hundred, and that includes our people and the venue people and then all of those people who are affected outside of that circle. For big tours going into arenas, you have a hundred techs alone loading and unloading trucks, so you're talking about thousands of people when it comes to the larger tours that we've been blessed to be on.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Barlow.

We go now to Mr. Kelloway.

Mr. Kelloway, please go ahead for six minutes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Hello to my colleagues, and a warm welcome to our witnesses, a Cape Breton—Canso welcome.

My questions are going to be directed to Mr. Grant.

First and foremost, Mr. Grant, I consider you and your organization an expert on youth and youth programming.

For many years in the first part of my career, I worked with a gentleman by the name of Gordie Gosse, and Gordie was a great man. He passed in 2019. He worked in Whitney Pier as the youth programmer in Whitney Pier and later went on to become an NDP cabinet minister in the provincial government. I learned so much from him in terms of the importance of programming and the importance of community engagement.

This year, Mr. Grant, Canadians have made great sacrifices and, in particular, youth and children have given up, as you say, going to school with its going online, spending time with friends and really getting the most out of their adolescence and childhood. Public health measures in every province are implemented by public health officers, and they're important, but we do need more and varied supports, as you mentioned.

In particular, you hit upon something I think is really important, and that's the mental health amongst youth. They are already, I think you would agree, at a higher risk even without a global pandemic being thrown into the mix.

I'm wondering if you could tell me and tell the committee how important it is for children and youth in these times to have access to platforms like Wellness Together Canada, launched by our government, or the Kids Help Phone.

[Clovis Grant]

As we know, in being homeless, there's a high level of anxiety and a high degree of stress and addictions that come with that, and this is pre-pandemic, so adding the notion of a pandemic exacerbates an already challenging situation.

The need for the services you mentioned, the Kids Help Phone, etc., is critical during both times, and we've seen just with 310-COPE here in York region and the Canadian Mental Health Association, all of those organizations—

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, but the interpreter tells me that they are unable to interpret what Mr. Grant is saying because the sound is not good.

It would be better if Mr. Grant raised his microphone a little higher, between his nose and his mouth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Grant, say a few words before we begin your time again, just make sure that the translation is working.

[Clovis Grant]

Is that better?

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Yes, that's great.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Thériault.

Thank you, Mr. Grant. I'll resume your time now. Go ahead.

[Clovis Grant]

Okay.

As we know, pre-COVID, pre-pandemic, the need for mental health services for a homeless population was high to begin with. We know from research it is one of the challenges, whether it's a cause or an effect of being homeless. The Kids Help Phone services, the Canadian Mental Health Association services, 310-COPE and all those things were important pre-COVID, and then you add a pandemic, with a whole bunch of uncertainty for these young people. They've already experienced uncertainties in their lives and this just further exacerbates that.

One of the things it's important to note is that a lot of money does go into mental health and we've seen governments increase that funding, but we find many of those services are not accessible for a homeless population, for different reasons.

Sometimes with a youth population the definition of “youth” is different. For provincial services, it can be ages 16 to 24. For federal services, it's 14 to 29, and for some health services, it's to 18. Even from just an age demographic, it's hard to access some of those services. Then you have the unavailability of psychiatric care and psychiatrists who are able to diagnose, and follow-up support.

What we find is that homeless young people are even more marginalized in accessing the services and funding that goes into mental health, which is why the need for very specific services for this population is so important.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

It's interesting you highlighted how the challenges are integrated, and so must be the solutions.

I was doing some research on your organization and I see you offer a large suite of programming. I'm just curious. Which of your programs has been the most popular as we navigate through this pandemic, and why do you think it is the case?

[Clovis Grant]

I'm not sure “popular” is the right word, but certainly—

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

“More utilized” would probably be better.

[Clovis Grant]

Yes. For sure, it's our mental health supports. As I mentioned, we saw a fivefold increase in the number of youth accessing mental health services. Pre-COVID, we were serving over 1,200 youth in our drop-in programs, but that number decreased. Therefore, you could maybe show a correlation between the lack of access to services adding to an increase in the need for a number of mental health services.

However, to answer your question, it is the need for mental health services that increased.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

It's not surprising. I know that MP Tony Van Bynen has been a big proponent of mental health and it was the focus of a study for this committee.

I have just one last question. I wonder if you would speak to the committee about the HOPE program and its participation since the onset of the pandemic.

[Clovis Grant]

That's HOPE, our anti-human-trafficking program.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That is correct.

[Clovis Grant]

We are the only housing service for youth in the region providing human-trafficking programs. It was affected in that it is a small apartment so we weren't able to support as many young people, but what we were able to do was actually to keep them for longer periods.

I'll just state quickly that one of the challenges is that the lockdowns had an adverse impact on many of those youth because it reminded them of being pimped when they were locked into hotels. You're trying to balance the health and safety measures, but at the same time, it actually creates trauma.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Thériault, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all the witnesses for their testimony on the collateral damage of the pandemic.

Let me turn to Dr. Legault.

Dr. Legault, thank you for your testimony. Like your colleague Dr. Perrault, you gave us precise and surgical testimony. You pointed your scalpel to where it hurts.

You are telling us that 200,000 people are on waiting lists, which is not insignificant. This is the equivalent of the population of the city of Sherbrooke, and we are talking about identified patients only. We don't know which city's population corresponds to the number of patients who have not yet been identified because they have not had access to diagnosis.

Witnesses who appeared before the committee at the beginning of the first wave told us that health care networks were already under pressure and weakened because of chronic underfunding. This morning, you are telling us that it is all very well for the government to have invested to support the economy and the public. However, it should now respond to the needs of our health care systems by providing the provinces and Quebec with substantial recurring funding to help them put their health care networks back on their feet. Congratulations for drawing on best practices. I know that, over the past few decades, you have certainly become an expert in “doing more with less”. In Quebec, we have developed this expertise because we had no choice.

Moreover, you say that there is a serious problem. Regardless of how the care is organized, people are needed to provide it. Right now, the pandemic is having a direct impact on human resources. We could lose expertise that would cost us an awful lot of money to recover.

You were talking about the operating rooms. Even if other people are hired, as was the case with the orderlies, incredible expertise may well be lost. Could you tell us more about that?

[Dr. Serge Legault]

When we brainstormed after the first wave, we made an initial observation. All the hospitals in Quebec were taken by storm, and we had to offload the surgical activities and reassign the operating room staff to other departments in the hospital. As a result, we had to stop training nurses and all operating room staff. The training of an operating room nurse or respiratory therapist can take six to twelve months, in addition to the usual nursing or respiratory therapist course. Most of the time, these employees are ready after nine months of training.

If I wanted to increase the number of qualified operating room staff today, it would take me nine months at best. But if the third wave were to hit Quebec as hard as it hit Ontario, we would probably have to split hairs to determine which activities we keep and which ones we stop.

In the first wave, we decided to continue the training, but in the second wave, we had to stop because our teams were already being stretched too thin.

We must promote the beauty of this work, which is really difficult. You are right, Mr. Thériault. The [technical difficulties] pandemic because of the resources that were already stretched thin, that was difficult. The chronic underfunding of the health care system is such that conditions are not optimal. Right now, the situation is worse than it has ever been in the history of public medicine. [Technical difficulties], I am absolutely sure of that.

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

You say that we are witnessing—