Health Committee on May 21st, 2021

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Rempel Garner.

We'll go now to Mr. Kelloway.

Mr. Kelloway, go ahead, please, for five minutes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question will be for either Dr. Tam or Dr. Tunis, or actually both.

All of my staff in the span of the last five days have received their first COVID-19 vaccine here in Cape Breton. We've talked here about vaccination numbers increasing across the country.

Could you give the committee a sense of the benchmark you're looking at, in terms of Canadians getting vaccinated, before we can turn to some sense of normalcy? Are you hopeful that Canadians will reach that level?

Thank you.

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Mr. Chair, we have used dynamic modelling to look at some of these scenarios.

In the model I have presented publicly, the scenario is that if you have at least 75% of Canadians getting the first dose—and we were at that time looking at adults 18 years of age and over—as well as 20% getting their second dose, if at that time we lifted, and this would be up to the provinces, of course, the more restrictive measures, we wouldn't have as much of a risk of overwhelming our health system or of hospitalizations. That was one benchmark.

The second benchmark would be to have 75% of Canadians getting both doses. At that point, we're looking towards a hopeful fall season, when people can get back inside and have a reduced risk of transmission and can get back to the things we miss quite a lot. We're looking forward to universities, schools and other of those social settings getting back towards normal without overwhelming the health system. That was a benchmark.

Since then, many of the provinces and territories have come out with their reopening approaches. I think that some of the provinces have indicators and targets that are in that kind of ballpark, but they also take into account the infection rates in their own province and so may go higher or lower, depending upon how much of the population may already, for example, have encountered the virus itself. You'll see a bit of shift in those, depending on the jurisdiction, but they are roughly in that kind of ballpark.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Very good.

Dr. Tunis, do you have anything to add to that or something that you want to comment on?

[Dr. Matthew Tunis]

I would only add that NACI is also considering the same evidence. They are generally supportive of what Dr. Tam just said.

Thank you.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Doctor.

Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

You have two minutes left.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Wonderful.

For my next question, I'll stay with Dr. Tam.

Last week, Nova Scotia, along with several other provinces, paused the administration of the AstraZeneca vaccine, as we all know. In Nova Scotia, my understanding is that it was primarily due to the shortage of the vaccine, but we know that it's still a safe and effective vaccine in preventing the spread of the virus.

However, I have had a lot of constituents concerned about their second dose, quite frankly. They feel as though they are in limbo. I know this through calls and emails. I believe there have been some recent international studies on mixed vaccination doses, such as the reports that were released in the U.K., I believe, and in Spain.

Can you tell the committee what Canada learned from these studies?

I know we touched upon it here, but maybe this is an opportunity to do a little bit of a deeper dive in terms of the answer.

Thank you.

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Mr. Chair, I'll answer the question in a couple of parts.

One is that there shouldn't be any concern about supply itself. We do know that there are supplies of AstraZeneca vaccine should the second dose be AstraZeneca.

The more important point is the answer to the last part of the question, which is that I think the international data is looking quite promising towards the effectiveness and safety of a mixed schedule—an mRNA vaccine, for example, following the AstraZeneca vaccine. I am optimistic that there's in fact an option there. Again, we await the NACI examination of that data as per the timeline Dr. Tunis mentioned.

I just want to acknowledge that it is, of course, anxiety provoking, and that's understandable. For those who received that first dose, that answer will be available within a reasonable timeframe for that second dose.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Dr. Tam and Dr. Tunis.

That's all from me, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

We go now to Mr. Barlow for five minutes.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Just to follow up on previous questions from my colleague, Mr. Stewart, are you saying that there is a strategy to end the hotel quarantines based on the benchmarks that you previously mentioned?

[Iain Stewart]

At this time, there is not a strategy to end the government approved accommodations.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

You did say that you were using some benchmarks to set these criteria or these timelines. If we're using these benchmarks, then why would there not be a plan to end the hotel quarantines.

[Iain Stewart]

You are absolutely right. We are tracking indicators such as the infection rates in the local populations, as well as the infection rates of people coming across air and land borders. We're maintaining that quite closely. At this time, though, there is not a strategy, to answer your question, to make a change of that nature.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

So there's no plan to end these hotel quarantines. Is it safe to say that these are simply a means to deter travel, and that's really the only basis?

You have no data that tells me that it curbs the spread of the virus any more than someone quarantining at home, and there's no plan to end the hotel quarantine, so is this just a means to deter travel?

[Iain Stewart]

I don't agree with those statements, Mr. Chair, and honourable member.

There is a public health benefit. The public health benefit I mentioned earlier in today's proceedings is to stop people from arriving internationally and then getting onto domestic flights while they are in an infected state. I also mentioned earlier that there are substantially more people arriving at airports and are more likely to be infected than those arriving at the land border. Those are the motivating factors behind the government approved accommodations.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I understand what your saying, Mr. Stewart, but I did ask you earlier and on several occasions in the past why you haven't tabled the data that shows this is working.

Again, today, I've asked that. You're just saying that this is why you're doing it, but there's not plan to end these. We have approved quarantine hotels that are accepting quarantine bookings well into the end of September.

Since you say that you're hoping to have everyone vaccinated by September, why are hotel quarantines going to be in place until the end of September?

[Iain Stewart]

The testing data is on our website, I believe, Mr. Chair, and honourable member. We do track that, and we do try to make that information available. We look forward to continuing this discussion as the summer progresses and vaccination progresses. Hopefully it will provide us with opportunities to make adjustments of the nature you're describing.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Just to move on to the contracts—and I know my colleagues have mentioned the fact that there's no opt-out clause—but is procurement actively negotiating transparency clauses in future or amended contracts related to the COVID vaccines, which would allow for parliamentary oversight, similar to what the U.K. has been able to secure?

[Bill Matthews]

There are a couple of comments to make on this, Mr. Chair.

We are negotiating for 2022 and beyond, and we've had some work done there already. There are considerations here in terms of additional transparency, and we're working through right now with our suppliers what transparency might look like.

This is an industry that's very interested in protecting its own interests, and I do have to say that we have to protect Canada's interests as well in future negotiating. We're trying to strike that fine balance, and the discussion continues.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

To that, Mr. Matthews then, if you're looking to improve transparency in this round of contract negotiations, why wasn't that transparency part of the negotiations in the original contract negotiations? This committee had put forward a motion, unanimously supported, to have access to those vaccine contracts, which we still have not seen. There was an order in the House of Commons last October asking for these documents. We still have not seen those contracts. Why now is transparency an issue, but it wasn't previously and still doesn't seem to be an issue for this committee?

[Bill Matthews]

I think there are a couple of points here. Especially early on, Mr. Chair, when we were negotiating these a year ago, the suppliers were very much.... It was a non-starter, frankly, when we talked about transparency, and we do have some ongoing discussions about what can be released and what cannot be released. Hopefully, we'll have documents for the committee in the next two weeks or so. We are getting close to answering that question.

It is a two-way street here. The government does want to protect its own interest for future negotiations, and the industry wants to protect its interests. I will say that broader industries are watching how this plays out. We've heard from numerous industry associations, especially the military and defence type industry, who are very.... I guess they want to underscore the importance of Canada's protecting commercially confidential information for these important industries. Everyone's watching this discussion, and I do appreciate that it's maybe taken longer than members would have liked, but we are closing in on it.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you.

Maybe to CBSA, I know we've talked about opening the border, and I think Mr. Powlowski and many others like me who have border ridings.... Has CBSA had any direction from the government in terms of definitive criteria needed to support the opening of the Canada-U.S. border? Are there specific criteria or a checklist that has to be met before we can open that border?