Evidence of meeting #44 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was doses.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Steven Hoffman  Professor of Global Health, Law and Political Science, York University, As an Individual
Shirin Kalyan  Adjunct Professor of Medicine, University of British Columbia and Vice-President, Scientific Innovation, Qu Biologics, As an Individual
Shernaz Bamji  Professor, Canadian Association for Neuroscience
Sue Paish  Panel Co-Chair and Chief Executive Officer of the Digital Supercluster, COVID-19 Testing and Screening Expert Advisory Panel
Stephen Lucas  Deputy Minister, Department of Health
Bill Matthews  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Rob Stewart  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness
Iain Stewart  President, Public Health Agency of Canada
Matthew Tunis  Executive Secretary, National Advisory Committee on Immunization
Theresa Tam  Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Krista Brodie  Vice-President, Logistics and Operations, Public Health Agency of Canada

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

These contracts were not requested to the October order.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

I'm sorry, but I wonder if you could clarify your point, Ms. Sidhu.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Sonia Sidhu Liberal Brampton South, ON

I just want to clarify....

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

That's not a point of order, Mr. Chair. That's a matter of debate.

Ms. Sidhu can pursue this line of questioning, if she wishes, later on.

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Davies.

I have stopped your time. I will resume it now.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Carrying on, it says that the vetting will be done “by the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel within seven days of receipt”.

I think you have already confirmed, Mr. Matthews, that the vetting was done by the department, not by obviously the law clerk and parliamentary counsel. Is that correct?

12:25 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Bill Matthews

That's correct, Mr. Chair. The vetting was done by the department.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Can you tell me why the department chose to violate the order of the House by vetting the documents, when the order clearly said that the vetting would be done by the law clerk and parliamentary counsel?

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

I have a point of order.

I'm sorry, Mr. Davies.

I believe Mr. Davies is reading the wrong motion. It wasn't in relation to the House order. It was in relation to Mr. Barlow's motion. Before he reads into the record the wrong motion, I just want to make that clear.

12:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Is that a point of order, Chair?

12:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Ms. O'Connell.

Mr. Davies, go ahead.

I shall resume your time.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you.

Once again, the witness has already confirmed that they provided the vaccine contracts, pursuant to the order of the House in October, so....

Can you tell me again why that was done? Why were the documents not sent in unredacted form to the law clerk for vetting, as the order of the House required?

12:25 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Bill Matthews

I think there are two things, Mr. Chair.

In relation to which motion, I believe there was a motion at this committee that said if we couldn't get the documents to the law clerk in time to send them to committee. If I erred in sending them here, I apologize.

In terms of the redaction, it's the Department of PSPC, as the contracting arm of government, that knows what's sensitive and what's not. We have an obligation to consult with our vaccine suppliers in making those determinations. It was felt that the department was best placed to make those judgments to protect the integrity of the contracts.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Matthews, were the criteria that the department used the exact same criteria listed in the order of the House of October 26?

June 14th, 2021 / 12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Bill Matthews

The criteria used by the department in making the redaction determinations were around privacy, commercially sensitive, as well as [Technical difficulty—Editor] deliveries under the current contracts and Canada's negotiating position going forward.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Okay. I'm going to switch here.

The federal government previously claimed that it would donate up to 100 million vaccine doses to low-income countries. However, yesterday, the Prime Minister confirmed that Canada will donate only 13 million of Canada's surplus doses. The other 87 million are accounted for through money.

Given that it's virtually impossible for low-income countries to buy doses, given the severe global supply shortage, why isn't the Government of Canada willing to make a larger donation of surplus doses?

Mr. Matthews, this is not necessarily to you, but whomever would be best placed to answer that.

12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

Dr. Stephen Lucas

The government did make the commitment, through the Prime Minister at the G-7, to donate both the actual doses, as the honourable member indicated, but also through its significant financial commitment to COVAX, which has as its core intention and commitment to further the COVAX process to purchase doses from suppliers to distribute to low-income and middle-income countries.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Are you confident, Dr. Lucas, that those countries will be able to purchase those doses? From where would they purchase those doses with the money that Canada's given them?

12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

Dr. Stephen Lucas

The money is provided to COVAX. COVAX purchases the doses and distributes them.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Okay.

I want to break down those 13 million doses. More than seven million of the doses are being donated from Novavax, whose vaccine is currently in clinical trials and has not even been approved in Canada. The remaining six million doses are the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson that Canada bought from COVAX. It seems to me that of the hundred million doses promised, what Canada's really going to do is deliver seven million doses that have not even been approved yet and may never be approved, and six million doses that we already were going to take from COVAX, which I would argue we never should have taken from COVAX.

Do I have that correct? That sort of seems, in terms of actual doses going to—

12:30 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

What's the breakout on the 13 million?

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

I think I know the breakout. I guess what I'm asking for is your comment on the breakout. It looks like it's less than six million of doses that we never had but were going to take from COVAX. That seems to be the net sum of it.

12:30 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair and honourable member. I had my mike on. I apologize for bursting out with that question.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Okay.

12:30 p.m.

President, Public Health Agency of Canada

Iain Stewart

I was trying to remind myself out loud.

On the breakout that you mentioned for Novavax, Novavax is, as you say, a forward-leaning product, but it is a product that is in the process of being lined up for manufacturing. Its clinical trial results are beginning to come out, and it's looking like an extremely promising vaccine. With respect to AstraZeneca, as you know, these doses are in fact in production. Those kinds of doses are therefore available doses.

Over time, we're going to need to get everybody in the world vaccinated. We're going to [Technical difficulty—Editor], so yes, some right away, as you're pointing out, and others over the coming months will be actually extremely valuable as well.