Evidence of meeting #46 for Health in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was documents.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Jean-François Pagé
Daniel Therrien  Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Philippe Dufresne  Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons
Caroline Maynard  Information Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Michel Bédard  Deputy Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel, House of Commons

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Thank you.

What the member read was for substantive motions. The motion that was passed was a dilatory motion.

Members need to be prepared for dilatory motions. Members also need to be prepared to do anything that happens at committee. Again, I can't help it if Liberal members are not prepared for committee. We are prepared for committee, and we need the witnesses here. We are wasting time, which is, I'm sure, the Liberals' objective, but the witnesses are prepared to testify and they should be here now.

Please rule.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, can we invite witnesses when we are dealing with a dilatory motion?

If the dilatory motion is passed and it was not on the agenda for the topic with witnesses coming, can we invite witnesses or have witnesses participate?

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, these decisions have already been made by the votes that we held earlier, so I would ask you to move forward.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Mr. Maguire.

I will ask the clerk to read Ms. Rempel Garner's motion that was just passed.

12:35 p.m.

The Clerk

It is:

That the Committee proceed to resume the agreed upon meetings in accordance with the motion passed on June 2, 2021.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you.

I will rule on this now. The motion calls for us to resume the agreed upon meetings. I'm prepared to talk to the House administration and see if we can get another slot, and schedule that meeting if we can, but that is not about adding business to this meeting. It's to “resume” the meetings. I do believe some notice is appropriate.

Therefore, we'll try to schedule a meeting as soon as possible.

If there are no further points of order, if there's no further business—

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Chair, I have a point of order.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Chair, I would like to speak.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Go ahead, Don.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Mr. Davies, go ahead.

June 21st, 2021 / 12:35 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Thank you.

I have to tell you that I've been in Parliament for 13 years, and there have been a few times when I have been extraordinarily disappointed. Those generally have not involved a substantive issue but rather parliamentarians' abuse of the process and engaging in disingenuousness. That's exactly what's happened here, and I need to state this for the record. For anybody watching this, I have to say that all of the cant, the misinformation, the feigned outrage and the cynicism that I have seen expressed by the Liberals today is a new low for me.

Let's review what has happened. About a month ago, we put a motion before this committee to determine what the last six meetings of this committee would be, with specific witnesses for each of those meetings. We debated those, we passed them and then what happened? The Liberals filibustered. Do you know why they filibustered? Because they wanted one thing: They wanted to give the chair some flexibility with regard to the order of those meetings, not to change them.

Every single member of this committee, with the exception of perhaps, Mr. Jowhari, who I understand is not on this committee, got notice last week of what the meeting would be. We were to hear from the law clerk and from the Clerk of the Privy Council on the issue of documents. For anybody on this committee to try to, with a straight face, look into a camera and say that they weren't prepared for the meeting today because they weren't aware of what's going to happen is simply disingenuous beyond belief.

I'll tell you something else: For the meeting that was supposed to happen today, which was the result of the motion I spoke of being passed unanimously. Ms. O'Connell voted for it. Mr. Van Bynen voted for it, for what those last meetings would be. The meeting for today, by the way, was scheduled last week. We got notice of it. Late Friday afternoon, Ms. O'Connell put in a motion for a 106(4).

Mr. Chair, I must, for the record, express my extreme displeasure with you. You have not once ever scheduled a 106(4) meeting on the next business day, not once. A Standing Order 106(4) meeting has to be scheduled within a prescribed time. That 106(4) meeting came after the meeting that was supposed to be held today, which was to hear from the law clerk and to hear from the Clerk of the Privy Council, and you took it upon yourself, Mr. Chair, to bump that meeting unilaterally and instead substitute a 106(4) meeting that easily could have been scheduled for tomorrow or Wednesday.

We all know what's going on here, and Canadians should know that Liberals are filibustering this meeting today, and they're doing so to avoid this committee holding the government accountable for their refusal and failure to abide by a House order to produce documents for this committee. Today we were supposed to hear from two witnesses—the Clerk of the Privy Council and the law clerk—whose job it is to ensure that the supremacy of Parliament's will is carried out.

I have to say that to use long-term care as a political ploy is a new low in politics. For these Liberals to move on the last day of the health committee, before we adjourn for the summer, a motion to study long-term care.... They have had all year to do that. By the way, the conditions in long-term care, the appalling conditions, the ones that Ms. Sidhu quoted, occurred over a year ago. They were reported in the Canadian Armed Forces report that happened in March, April and May of 2020. Not a single Liberal member moved a motion to study long-term care then. That's how much they cared about that issue.

By the way, we don't need more talk. Who are you kidding? Everybody in the country knows about the appalling conditions of long-term care. Everybody in the country knows what needs to be done, and what do the Liberals want to do? Chat. Is that the Liberal answer to these severe deaths in long-term care, let's have four more meetings to talk about it?

The Liberals formed the Government of Canada in this country, and they can do anything they want. They just spent $380 billion, and they can't act on long-term care? If the Liberals were serious about addressing long-term care, they would have done something. They would do something. They wouldn't just talk about it.

By the way, with great respect to my colleague Monsieur Lemire, there are significant issues of jurisdiction, which, by the way, Prime Minister Trudeau trots out extraordinarily selectively. When he doesn't want to vote on dental care or pharmacare or something else, it's an issue of the provinces. He lectures the NDP that we don't understand jurisdiction.

Now the Liberals want to talk about long-term care, which is squarely something that's within provincial jurisdiction. It's not an issue now. That, of course, is because they're using this as a political football. I think that is shocking and disgusting and appalling disrespect to every senior in long-term care in this country that Liberals would use this issue to try to skirt accountability.

You know, a government that's afraid of accountability is a government that's lost its moral compass to govern. A government that's afraid of transparency.... I know why the Liberals are nervous. It's because they know that they're in square violation of an order of the House. The very same contempt that brought down the Harper government over the Afghan detainee issue, which the Liberals voted for, they're now doing today.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Mr. Davies—

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

I have the floor, Mr. Chair. I've listened all meeting to a lot of people talk.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

No, I have the floor. I have the chair.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

No, I have the floor—

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

I have the floor. I am the chair.

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

I'm speaking to my point of order.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

I am the chair—

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

It's my point of order.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Hold up here. I just wanted to observe that I've given everyone fair latitude to speak and to debate this point of order. I think you have made your points very clearly. I would just ask you to wrap it up fairly soon, because it is going into debate and a decision has been made. Please—

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

I will wrap it up. I'll wrap it up this way.

Every single member of this committee knows that, at this meeting today, we were supposed to hear from the law clerk and the Clerk of the Privy Council on documents. Everybody in this committee knows that the Liberals filibustered this meeting because they don't want to hear from them. For that meeting to proceed, it would once again completely reveal that this government is in square violation and in contempt of Parliament. We talk about democracy. Parliament validly passed by majority, by democratic majority—the Liberals may not like it, but it was by democratic majority—to have unredacted documents delivered to the law clerk, who would redact according to prescribed criteria and then give that to the health committee.

The Liberals refused to do that. They have withheld 990,000 documents out of a million. They have refused to send those documents to the law clerk. They have refused to translate them, in violation of official languages legislation. They are redacting those documents themselves instead of having the law clerk do it. They are also redacting according to criteria beyond the order of the House. That is contempt. The Liberal members of this committee are showing contempt for the members of this committee as well.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Thank you, Mr. Davies.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

Mr. Chair...?

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Ron McKinnon

Go ahead, Ms. O'Connell.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Jennifer O'Connell Liberal Pickering—Uxbridge, ON

My hand was already up, but it's still up for this. On a point of order, I think it's important that we respond to the baseless claims that were just made by Mr. Davies.

Number one, Mr. Chair, how dare any member of this committee suggest that this is fake outrage? I lost over 70 residents in my community. I'm representing my community, those who died in long-term care and those who passed across this country. We can disagree on politics, but how dare any member suggest that this is fake outrage? We have been horrified by this. I and other members, Liberal members on this committee, have spoken at length about this.

To Mr. Davies' suggestion that he knows what's in our heads and that he speaks for me, how dare he? I am absolutely offended that he would suggest that this is fake. I have been speaking on the record, as have my colleagues, for over a year—