Health Committee on Nov. 20th, 2020

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Van Bynen has a point of order on Ms. Rempel Garner's point of order.

Mr. Van Bynen, go ahead.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Mr. Chair, my understanding is that it's the chair who recognizes who has the floor, and in this case you did direct that question to the minister. It was totally appropriate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

Ms. Sidhu, you have a point of order. Is it on the same point of order?

[Sonia Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton South, ON]

Mr. Chair, as a woman I ask that we be respectful to each other and ministers here, and then let's let everyone ask their questions and go on back to work. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Ms. Rempel Garner, go ahead.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

To Mr. Van Bynen's point, I direct the questions. I understand that the minister might want to answer, but she is here in her capacity as minister, and I am directing my questions as a parliamentarian.

It is my job right now to be scrutinizing the estimates, which are about $1 billion, on behalf of my constituents. I did the preparatory work and I get to ask who I want. This is not the minister's show to control. I am asking the person who is in charge of data questions about data, and I would like the answer from him.

If the minister would like to go and do a show at Rideau Cottage tomorrow with the Prime Minister, she is welcome to do that. In the meantime, I would like to have my question answered by Mr. Linklater.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Chair, in the interest of time, why don't we just have Mr. Linklater answer the question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Go ahead, Mr. Linklater.

[Les Linklater]

If I understand correctly, the question is with regard to the use of data for the development of broader relief programs. Relief programming is beyond the ambit of the Department of Health. Many departments, including the Department of Finance and others, would be intimately involved in developing those types of programs, based on various datasets.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Ostensibly, we're managing to prevent the spread of COVID, but we've seen the number of COVID cases rise, so what data would parliamentarians be using right now at the federal levels on interventions that are being suggested, including economic lockdowns? They have a greater impact on the health of Canadians. They are actually having a negative impact on things like mental health and job losses. Have you provided any recommendations to the government to put together a better data repository that could be used to evaluate those particular questions? They're top of mind for many Canadians.

[Les Linklater]

As I mentioned earlier, the common dataset that's been agreed to by public health officials has been one of the key developments in trying to bring a more holistic public health data lens to COVID.

I would suggest Dr. Tam may wish to add to this point, given her exposure to this as a clinician.

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

The measures, in terms of restrictive public health measures, are done by the provinces or local health units using their data, so they have flexibility on that. We do not suggest one way or another which kind of measures should be enacted.

Provinces have been providing us with their case data, and this new national dataset has a bit more information, including race-based data, but StatsCan—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Sorry; I have just 30 seconds left, and I wanted to clarify this. For example, I know we don't have occupational health data from certain provinces and whatnot. Has there been no effort to date to recommend to the government a more extensive federal data-gathering system from the provinces on, let's say, the efficacy of lockdown?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

There's investment that people have already mentioned, but it's to develop a national health data strategy. That is the recommendation—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

When will that be done?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Ms. Rempel Garner; your time is up.

We'll go to Mr. Kelloway for five minutes.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister and staff, once again.

One of the groups I'm especially concerned about with regard to mental health is seniors. I want to thank Mr. Van Bynen for his work and leadership on that file. Whether it's seniors living in care facilities or in their homes, like my mom, the toll of the lockdown and isolation is exceptionally heavy for seniors.

In my community, I've heard from my constituents that seniors need more ways to socialize, not fewer, during these times. Can you tell the committee and those following along at home what our government has been doing to provide supports for the mental health of seniors across this country?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the member for advocating on behalf of the mental health of seniors.

You're absolutely right. I think many Canadians worry most about the mental health of the seniors who, for their own protection, are isolated. I think we can all think of someone in our lives who is alone and needs us more than ever—ironically, as we are being told to stay apart.

That is why we launched the Wellness Together Canada portal to provide confidential support. I've spoken extensively about that. It's certainly available for seniors, but I think the additional investment in the new horizons for seniors program is also worthy of talking about. This additional $20 million is to support these community-based projects. Most of us know about these programs in our ridings. They're small programs, but they're mighty programs. Oftentimes, they are building programs that are face to face in communities, and this additional investment is allowing for many of these different kinds of organizations—oftentimes, not-for-profit organizations—to find new ways to keep seniors connected in their communities.

Some of the innovation that you can imagine is connecting seniors with young people digitally, for example, and making sure that seniors have the ability to have the tools they need in place to communicate via FaceTime, for example. These are in some cases new tools for seniors—not always—but certainly I want to thank and commend those not-for-profit organizations for thinking outside the box all across the country and doing that incredibly hard work to keep people buoyed and comforted during this time.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Minister. I would echo that last comment on not-for-profits across this country. There is amazing leadership on the ground at the grassroots. It's what's needed, and we know we'll get more of that as we go through this terrible pandemic.

I have one last question.

The government launched a national exposure notification app. My home province of Nova Scotia has joined the platform, as well as the rest of the Atlantic bubble. I personally downloaded the app and have been encouraging my constituents to download the app as well.

A lot of people, though, Minister, have questions around some of the language used to explain how the app works. Could you explain for Canadians the difference between exposure notification and contact tracing? I guess the last question would be, why did you choose this model, or why did the department and you choose this model?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

The COVID Alert app is a really important tool for Canadians and, in fact, for public health officials, to help alleviate the burden on public health to do that contact tracing.

The difference between a notification and contact tracing is that one happens through the app. It's very confidential, by the way. You get a notification on your phone that says you've had a close contact with someone who has tested positive. It doesn't identify their name or even where that contact might have happened, but it gives you an indication that you should reach out to public health, perhaps to get tested and to get advice about what to do next.

The contact tracing is a much more intensive process that public health officials undertake when there is a positive case. With the person, they're going through who they have been around and where they have gone. Oftentimes, it's hard for a person to remember. Sometimes there are issues of privacy, and it can be very labour intensive.

This COVID Alert app actually provides that rapid, private way for people to know if they've been in close contact with someone who is positive. It uses Bluetooth technology. It doesn't record users' locations or other personal information. Obviously, it was really important to Canadians that first and foremost, we protect their privacy. It's actually more private than the Instagram and Facebook apps that are often on people's phones. It's really important that people download the app. I'd just like to put a plug out right now to any Canadian who might be listening to us that they download the COVID Alert app.

As the Prime Minister said this morning, in fact, even if you're in a province where the COVID Alert app is not functional, it's wise to download it, because if you do come into contact with someone from another province who is using the app and they put in the code that they've tested positive, you'll still get a notification even if you're in a province that doesn't currently utilize the app.

We have almost all the provinces on board. It's a really important tool to help alleviate that burden on our hard-working public health staff on the front lines.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Thank you, Mr. Kelloway.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ron McKinnon]

Mr. Ste-Marie, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Gabriel Ste-Marie, Bloc, Joliette, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. My congratulations on your French.

I will start by raising a point of order.

A few moments ago, a number of committee members raised points of order at the same time. I would remind members of the committee that this makes the task of interpretation very difficult. Because our sessions are hybrid, I would like to ask members of the committee to try not to intervene at the same time—even though sometimes they seem to want to do that—out of respect for our interpreters, who are doing a remarkable job that I would like to recognize.

That concludes my point of order, Mr. Chair.

My question goes to the Minister.

In the light of the answers that Dr. Tam and the Minister have given us, I can see that the public health system was already fragile before the pandemic, because it was underfunded. When we look at what the Parliamentary Budget Officer said about the matter, it is clear that the underfunding is in large part explained by the federal government's abdication of responsibility.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer says this:By indexing federal funding for health care at the rate of growth of GDP, the federal government has mostly insulated itself from the fiscal impact of an aging population. But provincial governments, with direct constitutional responsibility for the delivery of health care, are unable to do so.

However, just now, the Minister told us that there would actually be a premiers' meeting at the beginning of December, where that issue may come up. The Minister of Finance is also announcing an economic update for sometime soon.

Can the Minister tell us whether the requests made by the provinces in the Speech from the Throne, could in part find an answer here, meaning better funding for health care provided in a stable manner, not just for the duration of the pandemic?

I recognize the work that the Minister is doing during the pandemic. However, in the longer term, can we expect positive news at the beginning of December, even though we do not have the exact date?