Go ahead, Mr. Cooper.
Evidence of meeting #102 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was illness.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #102 for Health in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was illness.
A video is available from Parliament.
9:40 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
There are no legislative safeguards, none whatsoever in the case of MAID for mental illness. All that would be required is for someone to sign off—two clinicians, not even a psychiatrist, not even a medical doctor necessarily—and they would then have the green light and would be eligible with the 90 days.
What are you talking about when you talk about safeguards, because there aren't any?
9:45 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON
That's just not true, and Minister Virani can speak to it as well.
First of all, let's reverse this. The accusation and the way you're coming at me is as if somehow I don't care about people and their mental health.
9:45 p.m.
Conservative
9:45 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON
You're being extremely aggressive with me and not allowing me an opportunity to express.... I understand you have a political point to make. It's a question of whether or not you want to hear my answer.
9:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sean Casey
Mr. Cooper, you're holding him a little too tight to the timeline.
Take another 10 or 12 seconds on this question, and we'll move to the next one.
Go ahead.
9:45 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
The safeguards are that you “must be informed of available and appropriate means to relieve [your] suffering, including counselling services, mental health and disability support services, community services, palliative care—
9:45 p.m.
Conservative
9:45 p.m.
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
Also, the person and practitioners must discuss those means and agree that the person is seriously—
February 14th, 2024 / 9:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
I'll go back to Minister Holland.
If what is being referenced is the so-called model practice standard, that has no teeth. That is very different from a Criminal Code safeguard. With respect to that so-called model practice standard, there's nothing there that provides guidance on the lengths, numbers and types of treatments. There's nothing about all treatment options being exhausted by the patient.
In the face of that, how can you possibly claim that this will impact only a small number of people who've suffered over a prolonged period of time? That's simply false, and you know it, Minister.
9:45 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON
You can say that, but it doesn't make it true. Secondly, you won't allow us to enumerate the ways in which there are safeguards. You say there aren't safeguards, and then you aggressively talk over me as we try to talk about what those are.
I would simply posit to you that the eligibility criteria is extraordinarily strict and that the model practice standards being incorporated by the provincial regulators will be similarly strict. As for the Criminal Code, if somebody violates those, it is a criminal violation. It is not a light matter and—
9:45 p.m.
Conservative
9:45 p.m.
Liberal
9:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
Here's a fact. There was a survey released by the Ontario Psychiatric Association that provides that 78% of Ontario's psychiatrists—this was released two weeks ago—are of the view that the current so-called safeguards are insufficient and will result in the inappropriate application of MAID for persons who are struggling with mental illness—in other words, wrongful deaths.
Why would Canadians believe you and trust you over 78% of Ontario's psychiatrists?
9:45 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Holland Liberal Ajax, ON
First of all, my interest, like yours, is to protect life and to make sure that people who are suffering get every opportunity to get the help that they need.
Second, the situation that exists right now is asking for additional time because we do believe safeguards are present. I have talked about some of those, but we think we have to go that much further to make sure that those safeguards are there. The people who are trapped.... By the way, we're talking about people on their volition in an irremediable mental illness circumstance—
9:45 p.m.
Conservative
9:45 p.m.
Liberal
9:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
You haven't cited one. You haven't cited any, and you haven't responded to the fact that 78% of Ontario's psychiatrists believe that whatever so-called safeguards that will be in place are completely insufficient.
We're talking about wrongful deaths when there's an inappropriate application of MAID. That's what we're talking about.
9:45 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB
What we're talking about, minister, is what you've demonstrated: that you're ideological and you're reckless.
9:45 p.m.
Liberal