Health Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Luc Thériault, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

So you're telling me that you do not need additional resources to assure us that when a particular country is dumping grapes on us, for example, you have all the inspectors you need to monitor the products on the market and you will have no problem removing from the shelves those that are full of pesticides. That's what you are telling me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Ms. Lapointe, please keep your response brief, if possible.

[Sylvie Lapointe]

Yes.

As I said, right now we have a system that's based on defined risks, and we have the necessary resources, including the budget increases we received.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe and Mr. Thériault.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach, for two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll direct my next questions to Dr. Tam.

Dr. Tam, since I haven't yet had an opportunity to thank you for your work, I'd like to do that, and really express my appreciation for all of your efforts since the beginning of the pandemic.

At a news conference last Friday, you announced that the federal government is actively reviewing all vaccine mandates. You noted that policies may soon shift from an emphasis on requirements to recommendations.

Can you confirm when that review will be complete?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

The review of these policies is in the domains of other departments, including the Treasury Board. Some follow-up with that department and the employer, essentially, would be the most appropriate.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I interpreted the remarks to include all vaccine mandates across departments, including the ones related to travel. Is the vaccination requirement for domestic air travel included in the review you referenced at the Friday news conference?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

Yes. There are different vaccine mandates, if you like, or other mandates in relation to the federal roles and responsibilities. The federal workforce is one, which I just mentioned. Transport Canada and other departments, working with the Public Health Agency and others, will be reviewing and are in the process of reviewing the policies related to domestic travel.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Do you have a timeline, Dr. Tam, for when the results of that review might be released?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

I don't, personally. Again, that is led by another department. Perhaps the minister will have more information on that.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Dr. Tam, is the review that you referenced at the Friday news conference one that each department is undertaking independently, in relation to their purview?

[Dr. Theresa Tam]

There's a broad interdepartmental approach to reviewing all of these different types of mandates. It is a collective, multidepartmental process, but there are lead departments, depending on which policy you're talking about.

I don't have a specific response for you about the timelines. I know there are active reviews. For the federal workers or federal departments, I know there was a built-in six-month review process, in any case, for that policy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sean Casey]

Thank you, Dr. Tam.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Mr. Barrett, please, for five minutes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to address my next questions, through the chair, to the health minister. Perhaps he can follow up on what Dr. Tam said in her responses to Mr. Bachrach.

There is a review that Dr. Tam has said is being undertaken with respect to federal mandates. Minister, do you think there should be a timeline by which that review should be completed? If so, when do you think that review should be completed?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Let's be clear. These reviews happen every week. We have cabinet committee meetings every week—sometimes more than once a week—around these issues. It's not as if we suddenly decided to review policies. These policies are reviewed continuously, based on the things that we know matter. As we said earlier, these are the science, the precautions and the epidemiological situation, both inside and outside Canada.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

This question goes to the health minister again. If you could, please reply in about the same amount of time as I take to ask the question.

Does the government have a plan that would see federal mandates end?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

We have a plan for every possible policy that we need to consider in the current pandemic.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Does the government have benchmarks established as part of that plan that would see an end to federal mandates?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'll try to be very quick, because you're very quick and fair.

I mentioned earlier that there are different indicators. I spoke about death, hospitalizations, cases, long COVID and economic, social and personal costs. There are many others I could mention.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Minister, the question is fair, as you said. It's reasonable that Canadians want a plan.

When we were provided, as Canadians, with a solution, which was to get vaccinated, we got vaccinated. When we were told to get boosters, we got boosters. We were told to wear masks, and we're wearing masks.

All Canadians are asking, every single day, is what it is going to take to see the mandates end. They're not necessarily asking that the mandates end today; they want to know what it will take for the mandates to end.

You talk about all of those epidemiological factors. What is the number? If you don't have the numbers today, Minister, I accept that, but will you undertake to come back to us by a certain date with a number that will then trigger an end to the mandates?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Well, I would be disappointing you if I were to promise that I would come back to you with one number, because there are many different indicators, and that's what we look at—the broad range of indicators. It's sometimes called a dashboard.

We all know that it's a bit complicated. It would be simpler if we had only one indicator, but we look at the range of possible benefits and costs to the different policies that we're using.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Again, Minister, I listed a few things in my previous questions to you. There's the global picture in Canada of all those different areas where you could set benchmarks—hospitalization, hospital capacity, waste-water surveillance reports, vaccination rates. Take a look at that whole picture. Set a benchmark for each one. Once we've checked all those boxes, mandates will be lifted.

Do we have those numbers, Minister?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

I'll give you one number: 700,000. That's the estimate of the number of surgeries that have been either cancelled or delayed because of COVID-19. We haven't yet the ability, with the current hospital capacity, to catch up with that backlog. In many provinces and territories, we're still hospitalizing and looking after too many COVID-19 patients to try to start recovering from the backlog that we have seen over the last few months.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I'm going to follow up on that question, because I don't want to spin my wheels on the last one too much longer.

We know that we saw a 20% reduction in cancer screenings during COVID, and that half of patients had cancer screenings and care appointments cancelled or postponed. A four-week delay in treatment will see a 10% increase in death. Does the government have a plan for 2022, for this year, to address the backlog of cancer screenings and treatments caused by COVID-19?

[Jean-Yves Duclos, Liberal, Québec, QC]

Yes, and there are all the associated personal and family costs that come with this. I'm an economist, so I use numbers quite a lot, but behind the numbers are people and lives and families. It's not an abstract thing when you recognize the cost of COVID-19. That's why we need to keep working together to make sure that the policies that we're going to keep assessing and keep evolving will be policies based on outcomes for real people.